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Year of the Rat #9: Assburgers for EVERYBODY!

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, June 16, 2008, 02:21:06 AM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

A good diet and lots of exercise does seem to relieve many "symptoms" of disorders which are probably misdiagnosed in the first place.

However, knowing a couple of kids who REALLY DO have Asperger's, they're totally different from "regular" kids. No one with an actual Asperger's kid is going "gosh, we thought he was a little different but we didn't pay it much mind" because these kids are fucking INTENSELY different from "normal" kids. That's one reason I don't buy these social retards who are dicks and then say "but we have Asperger's! It just wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents didn't notice!"

BULL SHIT. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult because when I was a kid, only boys could have it. :lulz: I was, however, subjected to all sorts of testing trying to figure out what WAS wrong with me, and I was such a terror in school that my mom pulled me out and "home-schooled" me (which mostly meant ignoring me while she partied with her little circle of hippie activist actor friends). There is no "my parents didn't notice". If your kid has a really real disorder, you fucking notice because the very first thing they do is make YOUR life insanely difficult.

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cainad (dec.)

Nigel's motorcycle runs on 100% pure Correctness. My little brother was/is not "a little bit odd." He was a terror, and medication combined with some therapy has not only made life easier for us, but it's made him much, much happier.

fomenter

#62
over diagnosis miss diagnosis does not mean real illness doesnt occur .. if your kid is a little weird a little out of control calling it a disease and getting meds because you are to lazy to do some parenting (nutrition exercise discipline) is part of the problem. lazy parents are more likely the cause in other over medicate "illnesses " than they are in aspergers , aspergers and other real problems should be pretty obvious as mentioned above
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Triple Zero

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 02:21:06 AM
So the obvious solution, from a maintenance perspective, is to find what we've added to the system to cause the problem, and remove it.  But what is it?  Personally, I think it's the TV.  I could be mistaken.  I didn't exactly make a scientific study of it, with control groups and all, but the general degradation of our culture can be traced directly to the immediate post-war era in America.

sorry, doesn't work.

i have a lot of symptoms of ADD and ASD that are keeping me in a constant struggle to be able to work without crashing down and organize my life. and i dumped my TV some 7 years ago, and it didn't improve anything (oh it does make your head feel wonderfully clean btw, i can recommend it to anyone).

unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on which way you look at it), meds don't seem to work for me. (though dexamphetamine was kinda fun, very good thing i'm off of it).

if you find what it is, please tell me, the past 10 years of my life have been pretty much 100% dedicated to finding a way to function somewhat like most other people.

so far, it's gained me enough knowledge about prodictivity tips and tricks to write five books and i am able to coach anybody into organizing their life more efficiently--anybody except myself. i got a burnout instead. which i cannot recommend to anybody.

anyway, i don't intend to give up, and as long as i keep struggling, i can just about keep my head above the water (also thanks to the dutch social welfare system), and who knows, i might fix myself one day.

-- okay sorry for that bit of emo.

next candidates

- High Fructose Corn Syrup: we don't have that in NL, we use regular sugar from beets.
- Lots of People Pressure: might be, might very well be.

my personal guess:

- Information Overload. even though i threw away my TV, i'm just slurping up text and stuff from the internets. and not so much the dumb 4chan and youtube stuff, but i'm learning on zillions of new topics, eating it all up, getting smarter and smarter, but never actually doing anything with that knowledge. well, maybe not never, but not enough--and it seems to fuck up my life or something.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

NWC

#64
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.

Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.

I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.

basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.

Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.

all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun

edit: forgot to add an "n't" to "are"
PROSECUTORS WILL BE TRANSGRESSICUTED

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.

Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.

I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.

basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.

Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.

all crazies are crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun


:potd:
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: triple zero on June 19, 2008, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 16, 2008, 02:21:06 AM
So the obvious solution, from a maintenance perspective, is to find what we've added to the system to cause the problem, and remove it.  But what is it?  Personally, I think it's the TV.  I could be mistaken.  I didn't exactly make a scientific study of it, with control groups and all, but the general degradation of our culture can be traced directly to the immediate post-war era in America.

sorry, doesn't work.

i have a lot of symptoms of ADD and ASD that are keeping me in a constant struggle to be able to work without crashing down and organize my life. and i dumped my TV some 7 years ago, and it didn't improve anything (oh it does make your head feel wonderfully clean btw, i can recommend it to anyone).

unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, depending on which way you look at it), meds don't seem to work for me. (though dexamphetamine was kinda fun, very good thing i'm off of it).

if you find what it is, please tell me, the past 10 years of my life have been pretty much 100% dedicated to finding a way to function somewhat like most other people.


Because you aren't like other people?

This is not necessarily a bad thing.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM


all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun


No, they're trying to sell drugs, as they get a form of kickback from doing so.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

sad but true. I used to work in clinical research. I feel speak from an informed perspective when I say DRUG COMPANIES ARE HORRIBLE ALIEN PARASITES, CLINGING TO MEDICINE FOR SWEET NOURISHING GREEN BLOOD. No joke, I've seen drug reps say, "Hey Dr. <name withheld>, I noticed your perscription numbers for Spagocane are down this month. Is there anything I can do to help you get our amazing drug to the people that need it?"

Dr: Well right now we're trying to get a commercial filmed for our study groups.

Drug Rep: What is that, like $5000? I've got my check book right here.



THAT SHIT HAPPENED

The Littlest Ubermensch

Quote from: Nigel on June 18, 2008, 09:25:15 PM
A good diet and lots of exercise does seem to relieve many "symptoms" of disorders which are probably misdiagnosed in the first place.

However, knowing a couple of kids who REALLY DO have Asperger's, they're totally different from "regular" kids. No one with an actual Asperger's kid is going "gosh, we thought he was a little different but we didn't pay it much mind" because these kids are fucking INTENSELY different from "normal" kids. That's one reason I don't buy these social retards who are dicks and then say "but we have Asperger's! It just wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult because my parents didn't notice!"

BULL SHIT. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult because when I was a kid, only boys could have it. :lulz: I was, however, subjected to all sorts of testing trying to figure out what WAS wrong with me, and I was such a terror in school that my mom pulled me out and "home-schooled" me (which mostly meant ignoring me while she partied with her little circle of hippie activist actor friends). There is no "my parents didn't notice". If your kid has a really real disorder, you fucking notice because the very first thing they do is make YOUR life insanely difficult.

I had a friend, Mike, when I was little, and he had Aspergers, and it was really, really obvious something was up with him (to everybody but geeky me, who couldn't fathom why a kid so smart was in special ed.) Had just about zero ability to control his weird crap and made his mom's life hell (or so I hear. Again, I wasn't paying attention, but I vaguely remember him doing weird aspie things whenever his mom wanted him to do something.) He's a far cry from some antisocial nerd making up excuses for being weird, and in his case, meds & a long stay in a private school for autism spectrum kids was the only way to keep him under control.
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Quote from: NWC on June 19, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
I didn't read the 5 pages of this thread, so I may be just saying exactly what everyone else is saying, but having read the 5th page, I think it needs to be said that people too often deal in absolutes.

Asbergers, while I admittedly know little about it, I'm sure is a legitimate disease with some people. Same with ADD/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. They're all over-diagnosed, but they can fuck up some peoples' lives unimaginably. Most people I know who are diagnosed with ADD don't have it, and they sell their adderall. A select few really need their amphetamine to be a functioning member of society.

I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple years ago, before they changed it to schizophrenia. I thought it was BS too until I was chased home by trees.

basically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.

Don't treat me for schizophrenic symptoms I don't display, treat me for the ones I do.

all crazies aren't crazy in the same way, and doctors these days are trying to sharpshoot with a shotgun

edit: forgot to add an "n't" to "are"

They treat symptoms, not causes. They only have the most vague theories as to the causes, most of them related to symptoms- like "chemical imbalance". The best analogy I can come up with is they treat a guy with gangrene of the foot with migraine pills because he exhibits the migrane symptoms - "groaning in pain"

Modern psychiatry is at the equivalent level of advancement as normal medicine was 200 years ago - they're still applying leeches and drilling holes to let the demons escape.

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walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

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Triple Zero

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2008, 03:00:33 AMBecause you aren't like other people?

This is not necessarily a bad thing.

oh i know, i don't mind being unlike most people in most of the cases, i can handle it or i don't mind. even though i've got some mild symptoms of autism, i'm an incredibly social guy (dunno how that works either, but apparently it's possible--before, i always thought being anti-social was pretty much the definition of autism).
it's the part where on the one hand, i have this brilliant mind, that is able to learn and understand the most complicated stuff on a very wide variety of topics, and that is able to combine that knowledge into the most wonderful new ideas--and on the other hand it's most of the time unable to turn this into work (blockage, like constipation), to get the ideas out of headspace into the real world. except for writing them down. which is what i do, otherwise they'll get lost and maybe stop coming.

Quote from: NWCbasically, in my mind, no one, no doctor, lawyer, mother, brother, anyone has ANY idea what the hell is going on with mental disorders. the DSM-IV makes less sense than the guy in my dorm who ate acid twice a week. No one knows what's going on, there are no exact diagnoses you can give for 95% of mental illnesses, so while there are legitimate problems that need to be addressed, everyone should just ADMIT that they don't know exactly what they or a loved one or patient has, and just work with what they do know.

because this is not what the DSM-IV is intended for. the DSM-IV is purely designed to test people for certain symptoms. some of these symptoms then have been grouped into names called "disorders", if you have enough of the symptoms that belong to a certain group, you have that disorder.

they can say that with certainty, because these disorders are completely defined by the symptoms they consist of. they have nothing to do with what is actually going on in the mind or brain. if you have symptoms X Y and Z, you have ADD. whether these symptoms may have been caused by a common cause Q or by P, is not something the DSM-IV is trying to describe.
also, if you have common cause P, but suffer from symptoms V W and X, you don't have ADD. because it's purely based on the symptoms.

on first sight, this may seem a bit silly. it's like treating all people with a stomach ache in exactly the same way, regardless of whether they have eaten something bad, are pregnant, constipated, have an infected colon or an alien growing inside of them.

but, it is designed like this, exactly because we are unable to tell what is going on inside the brain/mind. that's why they came up with the DSM-IV system in the first place.

where it goes wrong, is when the psychologist or psychiatrist doesn't realize that this is a slightly different way of traditional medicine. it also goes wrong if the psychologist gets money for prescribing meds.

but do not blame the DSM-IV itself, it is an incredibly useful tool, if used in the right hands. my father is a neuropsychologist--and no he never diagnosed me--and he's one of the good guys. currently, he's helping people that have just learned they have a real bad disease (heart, cancer, amputation, you name it), and he uses the DSM-IV (among lots of other tests) o see if they're depressed or not, the cause of the depression is usually pretty obvious in these cases. then he treats them. i dunno how, exactly, he always gets kind of longwinded about his work if you ask too much details and he never really goes anywhere :-P
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

NWC

Quote from: triple zero on June 20, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
but do not blame the DSM-IV itself, it is an incredibly useful tool, if used in the right hands.

Agreed in full. I've just never met a doctor, and I've met alot of doctors, who used it as such. One of them, a very kind guy, was hesitant with what he was saying, even though he was the one who administered to me the Rorschach and the MMPI-A. I made another hour long appointment with him afterward so he could explain to me how the tests work, as psychology is of great interest to me(especially when it's my own brain), and while they're extraordinarily objective and scientific-y(and I scored way high on both tests for the same things), he stated that it really is all guesswork, even with tools like the ones he was using.

Of course(and very unfortunately) he was not a psychiatrist, he was a Ph.D. clinical psychologist. If more people like him went into psychiatry, it would be much better off. But I can't say I blame him. My declared major is still psychology, and I've been studying it on my own since the 6th grade, and I've never wanted to do psychiatry, I've always wanted to do therapy for awhile and eventually get a Ph.D. and do clinical psychology.

But yeah, I know how the DSM-IV has it's purpose, but I still hold a grudge against it for all the pain it's caused with with all of the medications I've been on(I've been on 19 in my life, and a good 16 of those were pure hell).

But I also laugh at it, because every time I think of it I think of what I read in a book a year or two ago. Apparently in the DSM-III, being gay was a disorder, and then in the DSM-IV, thinking that being gay is a disorder is a disorder. That could have been between II and III, I forget, but I'm fairly sure that's accurate.
PROSECUTORS WILL BE TRANSGRESSICUTED

Triple Zero

heh, that IS funny :) but i still think, don't hold a grudge against DSM-IV, but hold it against the people that used it wrongly upon you.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: triple zero on June 20, 2008, 08:08:45 PM
heh, that IS funny :) but i still think, don't hold a grudge against DSM-IV, but hold it against the people that used it wrongly upon you.

Yep, labels and maps and models can be useful... its the humans that forget they're using labels, maps or models that make problems ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson