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Messages - notathing

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Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: June 01, 2012, 06:33:52 am »
That's it's job. Luckily, language also features the statements "I understand" and "I don't understand." As long as two people are confident that they have cleared up a concept and understand each other, why would you assume they really don't? Ideally, the conversation won't end with a single one-way transmission. There will be back-and-forth clarifications which would take care of any noise. No, that ideal doesn't always happen. The point is to get as close as you can.

you bring up some good points, especially in saying that conversation isn't a one way signal.  I can concede that language can allow enough communication to allow accord on some matters. I guess my point was that semantic noise still manages to creep in and can influence interpersonal communication in subtle and perhaps significant ways.

Regardless of your explicit hopelessness about communication, you're still trying to communicate with me, in the belief that we can reach mutual understanding. I hope you realize that.

I don't think that there is necessarily dissonance with my position and the fact that I am utilizing a form of communication with others. I think we can achieve a degree of mutual understanding.

Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: June 01, 2012, 06:20:20 am »
I think we had a whole thread about that awhile back, how just because people don't have a word handy for something doesn't mean they don't have the concept.

i always like the way the germans have approached this problem.

Rinderkennzeichnungs- und Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.

Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: May 31, 2012, 08:41:32 am »

Why do you talk at all, then?

sometimes I'm not sure.

Language approximates, man.

i'd agree with you there.

That's it's job. Luckily, language also features the statements "I understand" and "I don't understand." As long as two people are confident that they have cleared up a concept and understand each other, why would you assume they really don't?

belief that one has properly decoded the message conveyed doesn't necessarily entail that the message was received as intended. communication noise seems to be a frequent obstacle even in the most commonplace conversations.

Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: May 31, 2012, 07:44:06 am »

Yeah, that's my point.

oh, I thought you were making an argument about the particular language of English, rather than about language in general. carry on.

Why do you talk at all, then?

sometimes I'm not sure.

Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: May 31, 2012, 07:35:17 am »
the feeling, if I understand correctly, is sort of unable to adequately be described English.

Funny how the limit of our mutual understanding is the limit of our language.

i'm not sure i'd consider the limitation to be necessarily related to our language. language seems to be kind of a crude tool in general for conveying one's understanding of their perceptions to others.

i mean, no matter who is providing a description, that which is perceived still remains ultimately foreign to the listener, even if the listener has had a similar experience.

Apple Talk / Re: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: May 31, 2012, 07:21:34 am »
The article is way too vague in describing the sensation. I'm sure everyone has had a happy, tingling sensation at some point, but I don't think that's the limit of what the article is attempting to describe. None of the triggers ring a bell for me.

That said,
I can induce a feeling by what I would call
intense spacing-out
which I have a hunch is what they're describing.
But that's completely at will. Is the sensation you're thinking of induced at will, or is it more dependent on the object of attention?

the article is kind of vague... but the feeling, if I understand correctly, is sort of unable to adequately be described *shrug*

the sensation described by the article can reportedly be induced at will by some people but generally occurs as response to external stimuli.

personally, I haven't been able to induce it at will. I do experience it frequently though--usually in response to music (especially when I fuck with the pitch control on a record player).

I only ever got that from the usual sources - sex, drugs & rock n roll.  :lulz: Music seems to set it off the most, though.  :?

hehe, same here...  :p

I would get it from watching Bob Ross paint.  Also I can make the sensation happen at will and even direct it through different parts of my body.  yes even that part.

Until we chatted about this in IRC, however, I just assumed everyone could do this and it happened to everyone.  You know, just nerves releasing endorphins.

interesting burns... i can't help but think there may be some relationship between ASMR and experience with meditation and concentration.
speaking of which, Tel has piqued my curiousity as well. please report back!

i also assumed it happens to everyone.. apparently not :? I wonder if some people are incapable of experiencing it, or if something impedes them from doing so.

endorphins may be involved, but the mechanism of action is still unknown.

there ya go vex: some mysteries remain!

Apple Talk / Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response
« on: May 30, 2012, 06:35:37 am »
so is it just me or has everyone felt this?:

Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response (ASMR) is a physical sensation characterized by a pleasurable tingling that typically begins in the head and scalp, and often moves down the spine and through the limbs.

Most ASMR episodes begin by an external or internal trigger...

some of these various triggers are enumerated in this article, including:
  • Someone showing you how to do something.
  • Someone drawing on your body.
  • When you listen to certain soft or distant, and usually repetitive, sounds like a bouncing tennis ball, trickling water, or construction noises like tapping hammers.
  • People talking in a foreign or indigenous language.
  • Someone doing something very slowly and carefully.
  • When someone strokes or plays with your hair softly.

some people reportedly experience type A episodes, that is, experiences which seem to be induced by an individual's thought processes rather than external stimuli. (it is interesting to note that this category of ASMR experiences in particular have some commonality with certain types of mystical experiences.)

however, ASMR has been the subject of little research. it appears to have only recently become a subject of somewhat widespread discussion, largely due to internet communication (by the way, it's quite interesting to video search ASMR triggers).


Apple Talk / Re: The entire Internet is dead.
« on: January 15, 2012, 06:49:22 am »
it because you're all not wearing your tinfoil hats  :tinfoilhat:

Principia Discussion / Re: RAW Week on Boing Boing
« on: January 12, 2012, 09:00:45 am »
i'm keeping the lasagna flying, bob.

i hadn't heard this poem of RAW's before:

Well what do you know?
Another day has passed
and I'm still not not.

Apple Talk / Re: I'm extremely disappointed in your recent behavior
« on: January 09, 2012, 06:56:13 am »
i am the dumbest bitch on the planet

Apple Talk / Re: I am an asshole lalalalala
« on: January 09, 2012, 01:58:27 am »
i thought you were very cogent and not a dick at alll


some of the men in that thread sure made asses of themselves

"why is it rape to like younger women? DERP"

someone missed the point there

how insidious! they will never suspect it until it's too late.   :evil:

I got drug to some bar/arcade/OMGSOMANYHIPSTERS!!!!!!!!!, but I was wearing my hipster camouflage. Next time I shall do SCIENCE! to them.

wow thank you for adding this new phrase to my lexicon.

i better dress real hip and use it to get some lulz before it's not cool anymore  :lulz:

Principia Discussion / Re: Antero Ali on Chapel Perilous
« on: January 08, 2012, 05:40:29 am »
So Chapel Perilous is the mental state we go through in realizing the Horrible Truth and beginning to see the world for what it is, rather than as the consensus reality?

The realization of the horrible truth of the limitations of our constructed models of reality was what I was trying to convey. However, I wouldn't say that it is really possible to "see the world for what it is," because the only why in which we can attempt to make sense of reality is by having it filter through our perceptual apparatus, which is in turn run through our mental set for interpretation--processes which inevitably produce distortions.

Well what I'm getting from it, how it's described in this thread, is that it tries to be an over-arching term for all the specific things mentioned so far.

Roger called it the world of DUMBASS. You called it "comfort zone" and then "cognitive dissonance". Telarus, LCS and Ratatosk each described their own different but also similar things/experiences/states of mind.

So yes there's already words for it but they all pretty different in meaning. And "Chapel Perilous" seems to try and encompass all of them.

Another problem might be that when people speak of Chapel Perilous, they're usually speaking from personal experience. Highly personal experience. In such sense that other people (superficially) experiencing the same condition as described in the literal words that are already there, might not bat an eye.

So I guess the term is trying to be vague on purpose
, because as soon as you're being explicit about it, other people are likely to miss the point, or get distracted by the specifics.

In that sense, I suppose it's not a useless term, but has a right to be, cause while it may describe things that are already words for, but the particular words vary from person to person and case to case.

Your entire post was insightful and helped me to organize my thoughts on this, Triple Zero.

I was struck particularly by the suggestion that perhaps the phrase is purposefully vague. This interests me, because in this light, it seems that the phrase itself is redolent of several aspects of the state which it names..
perhaps in this sense the phrase isn't useless esoteric jargon?

Because so much of Chapel Perilous is internal, crafted from thought, we need to re-examine the helped/hindered by an "external supernatural force" gimmick. Part of the whole confusion comes from the quite arbitrary separation of everything into Self/Other. Don't get me wrong, the Self-model is extreeeeemely useful for certain things (like predicting that the sword coming at your head will end your experiences).

Why is it Arbitrary?

Well, as the running theme in this thread says, what we ACTUALLY experience (moment to moment) is a filtered reality simulation which tries to present the consciousness with an accurate representation of what the robot (a metaphor for our wet-ware + instincts) is receiving as sense data about the environment.

As our whole experience in a Moment is a set of filtered sense data plus any currently running Narrative-programs, the Self(when Conscious) defines the border between what parts of the experience "are itself" and which parts "are not itself". It's a fuzzy border, but useful.

Then Chapel Perilous happens, it seems that there is Something Out There that has as much editing power as the Self, and it is NOT NEUTRAL (it helps or hinders). RAW heard aliens from Sirius, etc, etc. You see this in plenty of Alien Contact stories. The Raelians for example, and the other ones which sound totally nuts.

I thought this portion of your post was particularly edifying.
the arbitrariness of the experience is one of the most significant aspects of Chapel Perilous. It is a very nebulous concept framed by some specific commonalities but ultimately defined by the one's personal experience.

Principia Discussion / Re: Antero Ali on Chapel Perilous
« on: January 07, 2012, 08:59:35 am »
perhaps I was too high while reading Cosmic Trigger, but my understanding of RAWs concept of Chapel Perilous is quite different from that which is described in Ali's quote in the OP (so perhaps this isn't all that relevent)...

It was my understanding that Chapel Perilous was essentially the various states of upheaval that one enters when confronted by the inherent distortions of their model of reality. To enter Chapel Perilous is to be stripped of one's buffering framework through which reality is experienced/interpreted. I always thought that Chapel Perilous was analogous to horror, as described in the good Doktor's studies of Horrorlogy

I could be wrong.

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