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Messages - Cain

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1
Would someone mind explaining about UK vs England vs Great Britain vs Britain and why Scotland, N Ireland voted to stay but they are leaving EU anyway because England voted to leave or do I have that wrong?

Basically.

The United Kingdom is the whole thing: England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland together (and Gibraltar).  Great Britain refers to the landmass which England, Wales and Scotland is on.

The referendum was a single, straight forward in/out vote among the entire population of the United Kingdom.

However, the polling and counting of the referendum was done at a constituency level, which allowed for counts of specific regions, cities and areas to be quickly made.

Because of its sheer population in comparison to the rest of the UK, England carried the "out" vote, even though in Northern Ireland and Scotland more people voted to remain in.  As the United Kingdom total vote is the one that counts, those regional preferences are in theory being discounted.

However, both Nothern Ireland and Scotland have special status under the UK Constitution, and a limited amount of devolved political power.  Because of this, they may be able to make their preferences stick in those areas, despite the overall vote in the UK going against them.

Ok, so - Scotland is a country, right?  England is a country, right?  So, what is the UK?  Also a country? Or, like, a mega-country?  I guess I don't see why EU and UK membership need be mutually exclusive

Depends how you're defining a country.

Scotland does not control its own foreign policy or military.  England does not have its own Parliament - there are enough English MPs in the UK Parliament to outvote MPs from every other part of the UK put together.

The UK is the country, Scotland is more akin to a US state (like, say, Texas) than it is to France.  However, Scotland (like Texas) has also historically been an independent state and Scotland (unlike Texas) also has a very valid claim to being a nation - that is, a distinctive linguistic-cultural group.  Scotland and England joined together to create the UK in the 1700s when England and Scotland ended up having the same King.  Only in recent decades has power been ceded by the UK Parliament back to Scotland.

So, to build on the analogy: Imagine that tomorrow, America voted to withdraw from NATO.  However, Texas disagreed.  So Texas starts to look at how to leave America, in order to remain a member of NATO.  That's probably the strongest American-centric analogy I can come up with.

2
Come work with me, Roger.

We have an opening on the day shift.

will there be wrath and horror and people running around asking why we DO such things?

Every single day.  I can say that with certainty.

3
Come work with me, Roger.

We have an opening on the day shift.

4
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: Yesterday at 08:35:07 pm »
Would someone mind explaining about UK vs England vs Great Britain vs Britain and why Scotland, N Ireland voted to stay but they are leaving EU anyway because England voted to leave or do I have that wrong?

Basically.

The United Kingdom is the whole thing: England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland together (and Gibraltar).  Great Britain refers to the landmass which England, Wales and Scotland is on.

The referendum was a single, straight forward in/out vote among the entire population of the United Kingdom.

However, the polling and counting of the referendum was done at a constituency level, which allowed for counts of specific regions, cities and areas to be quickly made.

Because of its sheer population in comparison to the rest of the UK, England carried the "out" vote, even though in Northern Ireland and Scotland more people voted to remain in.  As the United Kingdom total vote is the one that counts, those regional preferences are in theory being discounted.

However, both Nothern Ireland and Scotland have special status under the UK Constitution, and a limited amount of devolved political power.  Because of this, they may be able to make their preferences stick in those areas, despite the overall vote in the UK going against them.

5
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: Yesterday at 04:20:06 pm »
And now Corbyn has had a 170-40 motion of no confidence against him pass.

Because it's not binding, he's refusing to resign. 

 :lulz:

So the PM is away with the faeries, Boris and Gove are hiding behind their PR officers, Farage is doing a stage act in Brussels and the Labour Party is tearing itself apart.

Right now, Nicola Sturgeon is the closest thing to a responsible leader the UK has got.

6
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: Yesterday at 04:17:08 pm »
Johnson has stated if he becomes leader of the Tory party he won't be calling for a general election.

Whichever senior Tory party member who said Gove and Johnson had "engineered a right-wing coup" on Friday, give yourself a cookie.  You called that shit with clarity.

7
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: Yesterday at 04:11:24 pm »
Gove and Johnson were conspicuously absent from Cameron's speech yesterday in the Commons.

Cowards.  Complete and utter cowards, the pair of them.

In other news, the leader of the EU Parliament liberal bloc said today that the biggest waste of money in the EU, paying Nigel Farage's salary, is due to end soon.

8
Aneristic Illusions / Re: OFFICIAL POLITICAL CARTOONS/PIC FREAD.
« on: June 27, 2016, 11:57:48 am »
I like that Wikipedia has his full bibliography.

9
Oh shit, I am definitely drunk.  Please disregard anything posted in, lets say, the last hour from this post and the next 3 hours, unless it seems like it actually makes sense.
Can't say I blame you.

On a personal note, I apologize for making dumb jokes on your facebook Brexit threads. That shit is terrifying and sad.

It's fine.  I mean, what else can you do?  The people have spoken, and what they have said is "derp".  Quickly followed by "oh shit, I didn't think my vote counted."

So right now, there's not much else to do about it, except joke, watch the news and drink heavily. 

10
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: June 27, 2016, 07:28:33 am »
That's why I'd finished a bottle of red wine by lunch time.  Then I started really drinking.

I feel like it was either that, or doing something really fucking stupid.

11
Oh shit, I am definitely drunk.  Please disregard anything posted in, lets say, the last hour from this post and the next 3 hours, unless it seems like it actually makes sense.

12
Based on my limited experience with Blandford Forum Royal Signals Corp personnel, that sounds about right.  Though the nice meal is promising - it means you wont have to do too much retraining if he decides to go civilian again.

13
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: June 26, 2016, 12:52:52 pm »
I know, right?  They've been here the best part of 12 years now.  And as far as immigrants go...well, the Poles keep their heads down, get on and work and not much else.  You see the very occasional Polish shop.  No Polish political parties, action groups, Polish only Catholic churches, Polish only areas - compared to with, say, Pakistani Sunni Muslims in the UK, Poles really don't figure on the radar.

Unless you're a Daily Mail reader, one presumes.

And all of the above is ignoring the sizeable Polish community that has existed in the UK since the 1930s.

Well, there's a reason I started drinking early today.

14
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: June 26, 2016, 08:41:48 am »
That's one element of Scottish nationalism I'm OK with: it's "plucky underdog" nationalism that resents the English for the most part.

Whether it remains that inclusive once Scotland is independent is another question, but if I were a foreigner in Scotland, I'd take that bet over an independent UK right now.  At the very least, being in the EU would force Scotland to be under the ECHR purview and open up the possibility of retaliatory measures, should the SNP go that way.

Which is another thing.  We're now going to see just how ugly the British state can get, now it's free of having to operate within a European framework, with the possibility of tit-for-tat moves by European partners it was tightly bound with.  "Freedom" sometimes means "the freedom to be a complete shit", and I strongly suspect we will see a lot of the latter in the coming days, weeks and months.

15
Aneristic Illusions / Re: EU Referendum 23rd June: In or Out?
« on: June 26, 2016, 06:54:47 am »
Those on Facebook may want to have a look at this album:

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

I am lucky: I am white, I have a standard British accent (and I carry a torch and spray with me everywhere - the first thug who tries to repatriate me is going to do have to do so missing his teeth and with his skin dyed bright pink).  I'm also an adult male with a somewhat heavier build - I'm among the last person a racist is going to pic on, if they even realised I wasn't British in the first place.

But obviously many people don't have those advantages.

I'm pretty disgusted with this country right now. 

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