Messages

31246

Or Kill Me / Rant on Enlightenment (Not Another Fucking Goth Moment)

« on: February 13, 2005, 04:03:45 pm »

don't drink prune juice like water.

 

31247

Or Kill Me / Rant on Enlightenment (Not Another Fucking Goth Moment)

« on: February 13, 2005, 04:01:20 pm »

It can also mean that the chair's subjective perception and the person's subjective perception attempted to unify in the objective plane, thus causing the person subjective pain.

 

I refer you to Turd's comment.^

31248

Or Kill Me / Rant on Enlightenment (Not Another Fucking Goth Moment)

« on: February 13, 2005, 02:42:13 pm »

It wasnt too bad, although it looked a little like it was lifted directly from the PD.  Still, that was a fairly good explanation in there, so you get away with it, this time.  

Oh and I am obliged by the LDD to say, "you can debate the existence of a chair all you want, I can still hit you other the head with it".  Which could meant the chair has an objective existence, or you still believe too much in the objective existence of chairs and so your mind formed the pain response due to memory and out of conformity to past experience.

Just saying.

31249

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 13, 2005, 01:08:07 am »

He only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

SORRY, OPIE.  YUO ARE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A TRILOBITE.

CHEF D,
MEREHUME TAXONOMIST.

At least you said sorry

31250

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 13, 2005, 12:15:19 am »

He only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

31251

Literate Chaotic / Everyone post their favourite last words!

« on: February 12, 2005, 11:50:29 pm »

A serious one

"I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man"

Che Guevara

31252

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 11:20:28 pm »

"He who dies with the most shiny toys is still dead."  

true, but he sure did have a lot of neat shiny toys to play with while he was alive...

 

Damn your materialism!  When I was young we had to make our own shiny toys...

31253

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 07:35:23 pm »

Which is where mental liberation comes in. You have to get out of the mindset of power=tyranny BEFORE you seek power, so that you do not become your own enemy.

Very true.  The thing is, I dont seek power.  I really dont.  Well, maybe, but not in the traditional way.  I seek power over myself, maybe as a consequence of getting very deep into martial arts.  But that sort of power is never my aim.  "He who dies with the most shiny toys is still dead."  

And there needs to be a balance.  The ELF sets the pieces into motion.  It does the groundwork, plants the seeds, etc  The LDD is the end product, both  the LDD and ELF are necessary to each other.  One without the other courts total failure.  That was the point that may have been lost in what I was saying earlier.  And we need a dialogue on both too, if anything is to be done.

31254

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 06:53:59 pm »

I think that in this we are in agreement.

So do I, oddly enough.  Sorry for saying that you said violence should never come into play, I should have read your post better.  I do believe it is necessary, however it is part of the closing gambit.  Any sooner and it falls apart, for far to many reasons.  I suggest looking at the system attack method I was talking about too.  That fourth generation style warfare, like guerrilla style, but taken to an economic level.  It also aims against infrastructure rather than civilains or soldiers, and is more effective in many respects (try http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ for reading)

I think perhaps Turd was trying to get at the point that it only ever seems to be about the ELF stance.  OK, so we are not a stage where violence can be permitted, yet.  However, there does need to be discussion about it.  

Which I just realised is what we are doing now.

Duh!

31255

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 06:08:55 pm »

Its impressive in an off-topic-yet-on-topic way.  And in its strange structure...

31256

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 05:33:24 pm »

I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

 

I have a problem with this viewpoint. A lot of attrocities have been perpetuated by people with this mindset.

Tell me, Goat: Are you not actually one of these people who sit on the sidelines dreaming of the glory of the fight while everyday, normal people affect most of the change that happens through other channels?

The system sucks but it's not dead, despite the macho postuering that would tell us otherwise. Of course bloodshed and gunplay would be the best thing for this country. Of course it would, and it wouldn't force us to give up the human decency we've managed to scrape up so far, despite those who call for war. Right? It's the pathway to freedom, right?

Aggression begets agression, violence is a merry-go-round that solves nothing. It's simply not effective on a mass level. History has taught us that time and time again, and yet there are still people like you who call for it.

I'm no cookie and pie ELF (not that there's anything wrong with that  :P ), I'm well aware that there needs to be social change. I'm well aware that most people are clueless sheep. But I'm sick of seeing people die in the name of protecting our future when alternatives still exist to us. You're not enslaved yet! No, you're not. Not really. You were given a brain and a voice and an imagination at the very least, and you're squandering them for the illusion of enslavement!

1984 was a good lesson. It's a possible future, one that most of us have considered with dread. A watermark of where we don't want to go. And lately, it's also served as an excuse for extremeists whose real desire is for bloodshed in any form. I know the type well, many of my early years were spent in the company of militias, self-proclaimed armies of the people. They make no real change, because they're still trapped in the idea that theirs is the only way, that things are so far gone that the only alternative is to kill everything that moves.

It's a projection. 1984 was written in the spirit of "Change before it's too late, before your lives become pawns of the government." It's not an excuse to create more wholesale slaughter. One who calls for such an approach is no better than Nationalists who promote an us against them attitude in the name of country. Your methods are the same, your results will be the same. There are other ways, there are people fighting and making headway. You're not one of them.

You've skipped a pretty damn big step.

Its a good point.  I dislike violence.  Alot.  Been there, done that, got the scars and occasional nightmares to prove it.

However, there is a problem.  At the moment, things are really fucked up.

Yes, it has been worse.  But look at it this way, the normal scocietal, cultural-religious factors no longer exist for alot of people.  Those past methods of social engineering and control no longer work, so the State has to fall back on one basic principle, which has served it since the dawn of time, violence.

And so we end up in a situation where we have laws, but they dont serve the people.  We have soldiers carrying out orders, but they are all the wrong ones.  We have secret police and talk of rooting out plots and the thing is even if there are no plots to beggin with, there soon will be.

And the law should be with the people, the State is meant to be for the protection of people against outer and inner threats.  Partly idealistic,but that is its most basic interpretation. And so the state itself has become the  enemy, guardian turned jailer.  And it wont give up the hold it has.  OK, none of that was particulary new.

But this may be.  OK, so the ELF has its methods.  It can help people get "out of their minds" (to use the Neurocam phrase).  But what does that do?  Liberation in the self, for sure, but what good is that freedom while living under a tyrant?

And if that is kept up, sooner or later the state will act first. The number of people affected will reach a critical mass, where it will be a threat. And thats the chance, right there.  Chance for success of a sort, or a mass failure.  An uprising, rather than a revolution.

And thats why we need both methods.  The state cannot be defeated without the use of violence, be it in a limited fashion or otherwise.  And this can include using its own violence against itself, in the media coverage.  This can take the form of systems attacks (like I mentioned in the Patriot Act III thread).  It can even be traditional guerrilla/insurgent tactics.

Both are needed.  Without the violence, the ELF labours will be for nothing.  Without the ELF, there will be no revolt, no uprising at all,just a few malcontents to be hunted down.

31257

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 04:39:26 pm »

What yoiz was interested in is here, I think http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4029

31258

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 03:01:54 pm »

Um he did say the paradigm, so it depends alot on how you view that paradigm.  From an anarchist point of view, for instance, it coudl be said those changes had little effect because the State continued to exist.  Maybe.

31259

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 05:16:55 am »

He also known by the mysterious name of GOAT.  I will actually start working on the new mission stuff again soon, perhaps Sunday. I need tomorrow to tool up and do some course reading.

31260

Or Kill Me / An Epistle to Them that got Ears.

« on: February 12, 2005, 04:42:45 am »

It is whispered among the cowled ones within the Illuminated Bretheren that Tontons Macouts, is another false name for the leader of the NSRA, Turd Ferguson.