What is The Machine™

[Cain]

Actually, I was thinking of bacteria with adaption thing.  I dont have a clue about viral adaptation.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

It's the same with any pathogen.  Evolution of virulence is quite a fascinating topic--read up on malaria if you really want to get into the mechanics.

[Cain]

Will do.  I've looked at some basic stuff to do with it, but little on its virulency.

[Triple Zero]

Actually, that's not true.  Sometimes extreme virulence is the best adaptation.  For example, in the US HIV tends to be dormant for long periods of time and can take decades to completely overwhelm a person's immune system.  This is because our economy and political situation is relatively stable, the vast majority of the population sticks to monogamy, and have fewer children per couple.  In this sort of situation it's better for the virus to keep a low profile and extend its host's lifetime, to allow more chances for it to spread.
In contrast, certain strains in West Africa are extremely virulent and can kill people in a few years after infection, simply because all of the social unrest and poverty.  Men go from the country to the city to make money, sleep with prostitutes, get HIV, bring it home to their wives.  Or women come from the country to provide services to the militias and private armies, then go home when they get sick.  Everyone is having a lot of sex, mostly without condoms (especially since having children is so important since most of them won't survive to adulthood).  So the virus, having more opportunities to spread, replicates more extensively inside its hosts, which kills them sooner.  Virulence, in this case, is quite a good adaptation.

This of course fits in directly with my previous postulation, that The Machine is a mass adaptation of the human subconscious to population pressure.  I'll have to elaborate it more in light of the viral metaphor.

you speak about it, as if HIVs final ultimate goal is killing its host. it isn't, the goal is spreading. so why does it need to stay dormant *before* crashing someone's immune system, instead of just not taking it down at all?

this is probably off topic but i've always kind of wondered about it.

[LMNO]

[side topic]

SillySybin-- did you really say "mass enlightenment"?

[P3nT4gR4m]

[side topic]

SillySybin-- did you really say "mass enlightenment"?

Easy to scoff but, like everything else, hard to disprove in theory. I can't imagine human beings are going to stay this retarded forever. Either they die out or get wise. I'm more in favour of the dying thing but I realise this isn't a healthy way to view my fellow biological processing units so I kinda try my best to hope it goes alright for the stupid useless fucks.

[LMNO]

[side topic]

SillySybin-- did you really say "mass enlightenment"?

Easy to scoff but, like everything else, hard to disprove in theory. I can't imagine human beings are going to stay this retarded forever. Either they die out or get wise. I'm more in favour of the dying thing but I realise this isn't a healthy way to view my fellow biological processing units so I kinda try my best to hope it goes alright for the stupid useless fucks.

Hard to prove, as well.

At least I have about 200,000 years of human history on my side.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Well if it aint going to happen does that mean I can start killing them now? I mean sure -legislation .. nyadda nyadda but in your eyes would it be okay?

My point being - if they aint gonnna wise up, if there's absolutely no chance for 'em, then they don't mean a fuck to me and they're infesting MY planet. I let them live because I live in hope.

[LMNO]

Hold on, I'll be right back.

I have to look up the definition for "delusions of grandeur".

[LHX]

you speak about it, as if HIVs final ultimate goal is killing its host. it isn't, the goal is spreading. so why does it need to stay dormant *before* crashing someone's immune system, instead of just not taking it down at all?

this is probably off topic but i've always kind of wondered about it.

good point

viruses have no desire to kill people

it seems that people have become too week to be able to accomodate everything that wants to live in/with/around us


prolly has something with being control freaks

[P3nT4gR4m]

Hold on, I'll be right back.

I have to look up the definition for "delusions of grandeur".

I don't mean kill them all. I just mean make a start and do my bit for the environment. Recycle thy neighbor - kinda trip.

[LHX]

you can do that

but there is rules

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I apoligize if this was covered earlier in this thread, but is the Machine a term taken from One flew over the Cuckoo's nest?

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Actually, that's not true.  Sometimes extreme virulence is the best adaptation.  For example, in the US HIV tends to be dormant for long periods of time and can take decades to completely overwhelm a person's immune system.  This is because our economy and political situation is relatively stable, the vast majority of the population sticks to monogamy, and have fewer children per couple.  In this sort of situation it's better for the virus to keep a low profile and extend its host's lifetime, to allow more chances for it to spread.
In contrast, certain strains in West Africa are extremely virulent and can kill people in a few years after infection, simply because all of the social unrest and poverty.  Men go from the country to the city to make money, sleep with prostitutes, get HIV, bring it home to their wives.  Or women come from the country to provide services to the militias and private armies, then go home when they get sick.  Everyone is having a lot of sex, mostly without condoms (especially since having children is so important since most of them won't survive to adulthood).  So the virus, having more opportunities to spread, replicates more extensively inside its hosts, which kills them sooner.  Virulence, in this case, is quite a good adaptation.

This of course fits in directly with my previous postulation, that The Machine is a mass adaptation of the human subconscious to population pressure.  I'll have to elaborate it more in light of the viral metaphor.

you speak about it, as if HIVs final ultimate goal is killing its host. it isn't, the goal is spreading. so why does it need to stay dormant *before* crashing someone's immune system, instead of just not taking it down at all?

this is probably off topic but i've always kind of wondered about it.

That is most specifically not what I said, and if you had read my post more carefully you would have seen that.  The ultimate goal of HIV is indeed to spread itself.  The problem is that it resides within the host's immune system (lymph glands etc) and death is an unfortunate side effect of the virus' proliferation.  It's a tradeoff between a longer lifespan or greater doses of the virus in semen/blood, and the ratio depends on the sociopolitical situation of the host population.

[Triple Zero]

The ultimate goal of HIV is indeed to spread itself.  The problem is that it resides within the host's immune system (lymph glands etc) and death is an unfortunate side effect of the virus' proliferation.  It's a tradeoff between a longer lifespan or greater doses of the virus in semen/blood, and the ratio depends on the sociopolitical situation of the host population.

ok i was just wondering about were the trade-off would lie in your opinion.

cause it would just be optimal for HIV to keep its hosts alive indefinitely, if there would be no further side-effects for spreading to that.
but you say that, in order to keep its host alive longer, it needs a lower dosis of the virus in semen/blood?

still i don't quite understand.

having the virus in one's blood or semen is not causing death nor causing destruction of the immune system, right?
i need to look up how HIV does this. cause what i just was wondering is, how is destruction of the immune system linked to proliferation of the virus. they must be linked in some kind of hard-to-tear-apart way, or else this feature of the virus would have evolved away as rudimentary and redundant. wikipedia on "HIV" sheds good light on this (but is too long to repeat here)

(also: death is an unfortunate side effect of having a reduced immune system which is an unfortunate side effect of the virus in some way. but you probably already knew that)

hey sorry if i misunderstood your post. even if you didn't intend it to have that meaning i thought i'd just point it out for clarity.

let's continue with discussing the machine then.