Courtesy of my friend Tiny

[DJRubberducky]

Posted here because I want to see how Mangrove and LMNO react to it. 
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OK, retards, one last time:

If you don't have a solid understanding of both the Oral and Written Law (Torah, Talmud, lots o' Midrash) you have no business studying Kabbalah. First, it's Jewish mysticism. Not to seem territorial, but my religion and culture aren't for you. They're for me. If you want in, join the club. You'll have lot's of fun learning Hebrew and dealing with Rabbis telling you to go away. Second, Kabbala makes almost no sense taken out of its context. It's a deep study of Halacha (Jewish Law). As stated above, it means nothing if you don't have a real grip on the basics.

Finally, one of the big rules of Kabbalah is intensive study. How can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you "study Kabbalah" and yet not bother with learning the very fundamentals and philosophy it utilizes? Lazy and Kabbalah don't seem to mix.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Dunno about those to but I'll give you my two cents for gratis:

Why is it that a shitload of occultists seem to think that only the neandertal minds of the people who first invented these prehistoric systems are the only ones who can understand it? I'm pig fucking sick of hearing how this piece of inane bollix or that is true wisdom cos the 'ancients' said it. Wisdom comes to you. Where it comes from doesn't matter a rats nipple. I've seen kids cartoons that are just as profound as the shit aristotle and plato used to scrawl on chunks of clay. Quaballa is a paradigm. Just glancing at it could be enough to put you in the picture. Just glancing at a batman comic might do the same.

[faust]

It was from batman that I realised I was a faustzarro, fausts evil twin, faust is acually a really nice guy

[DJRubberducky]

Quaballa is a paradigm. Just glancing at it could be enough to put you in the picture.

I get what you're saying about how nobody's got a lock on enlightenment and/or "True Wisdom", and I agree with you on that.  However, your assertion that Kaballah is a paradigm actually sort of enforces the ranter's point.  Unless we have varying definitions, hence this next paragraph:

From what I understand, a paradigm is a model of how the world works.  I find it hard to believe that you can come to a sufficient understanding of somebody else's model of reality by merely "glancing at it".  Especially since you are glancing at it through the filters of your own paradigm - your collection of observations and experiences, along with any externally furnished ideas that seem consistent with those observations and experiences.

Tiny is pretty much just pissed off at all those people who are reducing serious religious study to a funny number game, much like our society has reduced Tantra to kinky sex.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I guess a paradigm is only as good as your interpretation of it. The quaballa, like everything else works on many different levels. As a simple diagram it can be understood as a depiction of the underlying structure of the universe and/or psyche. If you learn the hebrew letters assigned to the paths you can rip apart a whole bunch of ancient texts and glean insight into the structure of all sorts of paradigms that descend or build upon the otz chaim. Ultimately enlightenment is gained when one (in quabalistic terminology) crosses the abyss at daath. One does not have to be relating to the quabalistic model for this to occur. One might be just as likely to gain the big insight from being whacked in the head with a stick, courtesy of a zen master. Dive as deeply into kabala as you want it's no less useful however deep you choose to go. Telling someone they aren't a proper cabalist is just stupid.

And don't knock kinky sex. It's done more to make me happy than than  tantric wisdom ever did.

[Cain]

Thats crap.

Jewish law doesn't make sense at all, so Kabbalah certainly wont.

[East Coast Hustle]

on a side note, good to see you back around these parts DJRD.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If you don't have a solid understanding of both the Oral and Written Law (Torah, Talmud, lots o' Midrash) you have no business studying Kabbalah.

This is the best fucking post EVER.

PREACH IT!

TGRR,
Wonders what we'll do with all the "cafe kabballists", though.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Wonders what we'll do with all the "cafe kabballists", though.

Hunt them down and shit through their letterbox - same as any other newage bubblegummer.

[LMNO]

Mangrove has actually traced kaballah to ancient greek cultures, if I recall correctly.


Not to mention, the Law of Fives allows me to use the Tree of Life however I see fit.


And I don't see how one can say that Judaic Mysticism can be defined by the Halacha.

And further, I don't need to be Christian to study the New Testament, why do I have to be Jewish to study the Torah?



LMNO
-SSOOKN in da hizzouse.

[P3nT4gR4m]

The establishment has a vested interest in preventing you from reaching enlightenment. Deriding any attempt to get there on your own is one of the suits they have at hand. This "no one gets to heaven save through us" thing is typical of any established religious patriarchy. Letter box + exrement = problem addressed

[Cain]

Captain Alphpance, can you expand on the Greek/Kabbalah thing for me more please?  TIA.

[LMNO]

Can't.  It was Mang's research.  Look in the Golden Apple Hall in EB&G.  I think that's where he posted his findings.

I'll bump it if I find it.

[LMNO]

Found it.  Bumped in the "Paganism" subforum on EB&G.

[Thurnez Isa]

Paganism..??
I hate to break to them but Kabbala is not a pagan belief
sure its mysticism... but it comes from judaism - which last i checked is not much of a pagan philosphy