ITT, We whine about how bad humanity is (especially white peoples), and rip off

[P3nT4gR4m]

You can hand a 16-year-old a laser scalpel, but I'm not letting him perform surgery on me.


There is a huge difference between having new technology, and actually knowing how to use it well.  Not to mention, unless you're only going to be creating electronically generated music, there are issues of real-world acoustics, microphone choice and placement, and technical ability on one's instrument of choice.

We were talking about the recording industry specifically. I'm going to stick with that because live music is a different argument. In terms of electronically generated, everything you listen to is. It's recorded digitally, remastered and edited digitally then, at the other end your equipment reads it digitally and transfers this, electronically to the analogue output , via your speakers.

The technical ability thing doesn't wash with me either. Most popular music is performed by people who have a passable level of technical ability but use this to maximum effect. The virtuosos are few and far between. Having said this tho, I'm sure a lot of virtuoso's go undiscovered because they can't be bothered with the hassle of getting a recording contract.

[LMNO]

I knew I should have been more specific.


What I mean is this:  Unless you use a synth, a sampler, a drum machine and a guitar Pod jacked straight into your computer, you're still gonna have to capture and process analog soundwaves propagating though the atmosphere.

That involves equipment and knowledge that goes beyond what is in the "ProTools for Dummies" manual.

And it don't come cheap.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I knew I should have been more specific.


What I mean is this:  Unless you use a synth, a sampler, a drum machine and a guitar Pod jacked straight into your computer, you're still gonna have to capture and process analog soundwaves propagating though the atmosphere.

That involves equipment and knowledge that goes beyond what is in the "ProTools for Dummies" manual.

And it don't come cheap.

If you're talking about more than mics then I dunno enough to argue the toss. How uncheap are we talking here? Ballpark - 1000, 10000, 1000000?

(in case u missed it I just Made the transition from debate to education)

[Thurnez Isa]

And it don't come cheap.

Don't have to tell me

[LMNO]

Well, let's break down some of the costs.

First, let's assume that you don't want the Sebadoh lo-fi sound, you want (just for the sake of argument) a song to sound like Nirvana.

First, you'll need an environment.  In this case, you want both a "good sounding" room (a room with aesthetically pleasing acoustic reflections), and the ability to not "hear the room" when recording so you can add your own environment (reverb/delay).

So, what you need is a person who can tell what a good room sounds like, so you hire one.  Usually that's the engineer, which can go for either a percentage of your record sales, or $100-?? an hour, depending on how famous he/she is.

Second, you need the room itself.  You can either build it, or rent it.  If you build it you need zoning permits, and construction costs to soundproof it, and contractors to build it to specification (i'll let any of you other homeowners out there figure out the cost of that).  If you want to rent it, that can again go upwards of $100 an hour.  Typically, one song takes about 4 hours to record, from setup to breakdown.

We will assume that the musicians have their own equipment, and that you don't need to hire studio musicians.

Third, you need microphones.  To record a drumset, you will need about 10 mics:  Kick, Snare, Hi Hat, 3 toms, 2 cymbals, and 2 room.  The type and cost of these mics can range between $100 - $5000 each.  You will also need to record the guitar, bass, and vocals (the vocal mic is usually the most expensive, and can reach $10,000).  Often, the guitar and bass will be recorded with multiple microphones.

Fourth, you need someone who knows where to place the microphones for optimum sound quality, and knows about acoustic sound cancellation (quickly, it means that if you have 2 mics, and they record the same sound, but are paced with a 3" lateral difference, when they are mixed, frequencies with a 3" wavelength will be cancelled out).  Again, you're talking about an engineer, prices listed above.)

Fifth (you knew there had to be a fifth, right?) many of the digital effects emulators do not have the resolution or sound quality of the original analog devices (reverb, compression, distortion, phase shifter etc.).  These vintage pieces of analog equipment are vital to get the "perfect" sound.  The cost range of these are enormous.


So, to record one song, with no overdubs, a minimun of microphones, un-mastered, with crappy equipment and a cut-rate engineer, you'll be spending about $3000.  

But it's not gonna sound like Nevermind until you drop about $10,000, for starters.

[AFK]

Someone who understands sound is essential.  It's the difference between your bass drum sounding like a bass drum, or a typewriter.  Nothing can ruin a record faster than bad production, and your ears cannot escape it. 

[LMNO]

The kick drum on ...And Justice For All is a prime example.

[AFK]

The kick drum on ...And Justice For All is a prime example.

Amen.  Oh, I know this is an aside but Lars has stated that the next album will not feature the crappy drum mix and also Kirk will be allowed to perform solos again. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

and also Kirk will be allowed to perform solos again. 

LOL - has the phrase "if it aint broke don't fix it" ever applied more aptly than here?

Large percentage of oldschool metallica fans are either guitar dabblers themselves or just plain love it when Kirk let's wail.

[Mourning Star]

I think it's hilarious that Queensryche's record label asked them to go grunge after the whole Seattle thing happened. 

And thankfully, Geoff Tate told them to fuck themselves...

[AFK]

I think it's hilarious that Queensryche's record label asked them to go grunge after the whole Seattle thing happened. 

And thankfully, Geoff Tate told them to fuck themselves...

Um, have you ever heard the album "Hear in the Now Frontier?"

That's a perfect mix of bad production and bad songwriting.   

[hunter s.durden]

Metallica is very skilled in the instrument department, and I do like even some instrumentals (Call of Cthulu = awesome), but don't encourage to much of that. I like words in my songs, not just two lines and then 7 minutes of guitar. (they did do it well on Justice though)

[Cain]

I think reading KLF's The Manual will help clear up alot of the problems in here, as while it is somewhat out of date, it still explains the technical aspects of modern pop music making in a very good way.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Metallica is very skilled in the instrument department, and I do like even some instrumentals (Call of Cthulu = awesome), but don't encourage to much of that. I like words in my songs, not just two lines and then 7 minutes of guitar. (they did do it well on Justice though)

I'm kinda both ways tbh I love everything from Dylan which sounds like dogshit but its all about the words right up to Steve Vai who actually sounded worse when he started putting singing in his solo albums.

[B_M_W]

I knew I should have been more specific.


What I mean is this:  Unless you use a synth, a sampler, a drum machine and a guitar Pod jacked straight into your computer, you're still gonna have to capture and process analog soundwaves propagating though the atmosphere.

That involves equipment and knowledge that goes beyond what is in the "ProTools for Dummies" manual.

And it don't come cheap.

Unless all you want to do is record your classical guitar tracks, and then all you need is a good mic, a recording program, and a room with good acoustics.

Simple FTW.