CloserToGod: Black Iron Prison Rebuttal

[LMNO]

Me = curious about which forum mtpath was on...

[Cain]

MW, I'm thinking.  Name looks familiar...

[mtpathy]

I thought we offered asshattery.

Oh, and by the way:

Oddly enough i read about the black iron prison within another forum that tended to treat those that were part of this group "discordians, subgenii", as a carnival act, something to gain amusment from. although i think many here tend to see themselves as being just this i also think that there are some thought provoking and quite enlightened ideas written between the lines, but not necessarily blatently stated.
Anyways the concept and idiology of the balck iron prison isnt new too me, although it being stated in such a colourful context is, ive studied aura reading and empathy most my adolscent life, and now into my adult life i find that people are indeed trapped by there own perceptions, and by this they have created there reality of bias that they couldnt escape from even if they wanted too.
This is a system and idiology i've been working on both moving outside of as well as defining the parts that make it up ie: "the machine", for quite a long time, not quite sure how to approach any of this but if anyones ever intrested in comparing notes or experiences id be more then happy to talk, perhaps over a nice game of chess?
Salutations

I would be very happy to hear about a link of the BIP with empathy (without the metaphysical gang war of "empathy vs emotional contagion").  Some of us here (ahem*me*ahem) tend to get all left-brained when making this shit up.

So, mtpathy:  give us a rant, if'n you please.

err well i downloaded and read the pdf file repeatedly and although much of it tended to sound like a kid voicing his angst "isnt that a kmfdm album" against the world, there were other parts of it that i found quite new and novel.
as ive stated earlier this concept isnt new too me, but its intresting to find others that i might share my experiences of it with and for them to not think that im to weird.. but i tend to think that this belief of a faceless and massless machine that has all these spinning parts and greased gears is us, nothing more and nothing less.
where many seem to personify the machine as being a thing outside of self ie: society, governement, the female or male species, the president etc. " i assume alot dont i"?  i tend to see this machine as being only a outward manifestation of a inward conflict.
i would even place the idiology of chaos theory into this mix,"sure why not" as this philosophy imo seems to be a westernized concept birthed from the eastern belief of zen "everything ceases to exist, when one begins to exist only in the present", except in the westernized mindset they have taken that belief to mean a more nihilistic everything dies so theres no meaning too life approach.

[mtpathy]

Me = curious about which forum mtpath was on...

MW, I'm thinking.  Name looks familiar...

sigh it's good to know that i already have enemies home wouldnt be that without looking over my shoulder "starts singing memories"

[Cain]

Pffft, we don't hold every member of MW responsible for their jackass admins.  Thats the sort of thing Mol does with us, IIRC.

[LMNO]

mt, a few reactions:

1.  I don't care if you post on MW.

2.  "ideology of chaos theory" could mean many different things, from the scientific equations to Khaos Madgjieekkque.  could you be more clear on that point?

3.  I tend to separate the Black Iron Prison from the Machine,Ñ¢, and I really don't see it in a nihilistic way.  It's simply a fact: there are some things in this Universe I cannot directly experience, and I cannot even objectively observe the small amount of stuff I can directly experience.  But what I can do is to change the way I experience things.  It's a simple concept, but many, many people think that what they observe is "all" that there "is".

4.  I hold that the Machine,Ñ¢ is what happens when people forget they're in Prison.

5.  Check the "Golden Sphere of Possibility" thread to see another angle of the BIP.

[Triple Zero]

we've been over this before, but i feel i need to add (my own view) an important elaboration on your point 4 :

4 - an example of people forgetting they're in prison, is when they forget that they are just primates, animals, and animals always have instincts and imprints. and oh how much do they want to forget, dressing up in their suits etc.
when people forget this and they still find themselves reacting in an instinctual way from time to time, they try very hard to rationalize their behaviour. from this mixup come a whole lot of the "sin" and "social norm" and "our people" and other straightjackets.

and even if the effect is not very pronounced in everybody, the cumulative effect still fuels the Machine.

[LMNO]

we've been over this before, but i feel i need to add (my own view) an important elaboration on your point 4 :

4 - an example of people forgetting they're in prison, is when they forget that they are just primates, animals, and animals always have instincts and imprints. and oh how much do they want to forget, dressing up in their suits etc.
when people forget this and they still find themselves reacting in an instinctual way from time to time, they try very hard to rationalize their behaviour. from this mixup come a whole lot of the "sin" and "social norm" and "our people" and other straightjackets.

and even if the effect is not very pronounced in everybody, the cumulative effect still fuels the Machine.

Bingo. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

we've been over this before, but i feel i need to add (my own view) an important elaboration on your point 4 :

4 - an example of people forgetting they're in prison, is when they forget that they are just primates, animals, and animals always have instincts and imprints. and oh how much do they want to forget, dressing up in their suits etc.
when people forget this and they still find themselves reacting in an instinctual way from time to time, they try very hard to rationalize their behaviour. from this mixup come a whole lot of the "sin" and "social norm" and "our people" and other straightjackets.

and even if the effect is not very pronounced in everybody, the cumulative effect still fuels the Machine.

Wake up and smell the monkey!

[Rev. St. Syn, KSC (Ret.)]

Oddly enough i read about the black iron prison within another forum that tended to treat those that were part of this group "discordians, subgenii", as a carnival act, something to gain amusment from. although i think many here tend to see themselves as being just this i also think that there are some thought provoking and quite enlightened ideas written between the lines, but not necessarily blatently stated.

To quote that fucking book:

We are a tribe of philosophers, theologians, magicians, scientists, artists, clowns, and similar maniacs...

The rest of that quote goes on about being intrigued with Eris. I still am, but it ebs and flows. There's not so much Orthodox Discordianism about these days.

[LMNO]

There's not so much Orthodox Discordianism about these days.

Well, that's a relief.

[Triple Zero]

i have to mention, the point 4 elaboration was initially found by somebody else (forgot who), i think on the old (pdcomrefuge) BIP forum. i'm glad you guys seem to agree with my wordings, so now we still have this idea backup up again floating on this board

to me, this specific part is really one of the most profound results of the old BIP forum, and it feels to me as the most important answer to "why/how is there a Machine?"

monkeys trying to be not-monkeys, no matter they go crazy

this image will demonstrate to you the confusion of the crazy monkey/not-monkey:

poor monkey.

anyway, i think it would be good if somebody were to write this elaboration up in a few more words (not many), so it can be pasted up in the next edition of whatever everybody's going to print out and spread. and also so it doesn't get lost in the middle of a thread like this.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Everything gets lost in the middle of a thread like this, that's the beauty of this place, only the regulars benefit from it. Kinda makes me feel special.

[LMNO]

i have to mention, the point 4 elaboration was initially found by somebody else (forgot who), i think on the old (pdcomrefuge) BIP forum.
anyway, i think it would be good if somebody were to write this elaboration up in a few more words (not many), so it can be pasted up in the next edition of whatever everybody's going to print out and spread. and also so it doesn't get lost in the middle of a thread like this.

It was me 

I'll see what I can do.

[LHX]

this is some damn good dialog