Author Topic: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams  (Read 28811 times)

Mangrove

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2007, 09:12:33 pm »
ok...occult synthesis begins.

first up: divination

having a 'heads up' of some kind appears to be a very human need. as such, the need was filled with a myriad of methods.

cartomancy, bibliomancy, chiromancy, geomancy, necromancy, auguries, i-ching, runes, astrology, sid & nancy etc etc.

or cards, books, palms, figures traced in the dirt, speaking with the dead, omens of bird flight etc.

people seek divinations (of whatever variety) in the belief that they can either obtain information about the future, or at least, gain an alternate view of present circumstances.

why would they do this? in the case of stereotypical 'fortune telling' it is to learn about the future, probably driven by either curiosity of fear. because the future is unknown to us, the idea that certain tools can penetrate that veil is attractive.

and...uhh...oh....crap. i should've thought about this more before i started typing.

grr.





What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

LHX

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2007, 09:19:11 pm »
ok...occult synthesis begins.

first up: divination

having a 'heads up' of some kind appears to be a very human need. as such, the need was filled with a myriad of methods.

cartomancy, bibliomancy, chiromancy, geomancy, necromancy, auguries, i-ching, runes, astrology, sid & nancy etc etc.

or cards, books, palms, figures traced in the dirt, speaking with the dead, omens of bird flight etc.

people seek divinations (of whatever variety) in the belief that they can either obtain information about the future, or at least, gain an alternate view of present circumstances.

why would they do this? in the case of stereotypical 'fortune telling' it is to learn about the future, probably driven by either curiosity of fear. because the future is unknown to us, the idea that certain tools can penetrate that veil is attractive.

and...uhh...oh....crap. i should've thought about this more before i started typing.

grr.






would it be fair to say that occult/symbol systems lend themselves to being used for divination?

(divination being one of multiple possible uses)
neat hell

Doc Howl

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2007, 09:20:41 pm »
ok...occult synthesis begins.

first up: divination

having a 'heads up' of some kind appears to be a very human need. as such, the need was filled with a myriad of methods.

cartomancy, bibliomancy, chiromancy, geomancy, necromancy, auguries, i-ching, runes, astrology, sid & nancy etc etc.

or cards, books, palms, figures traced in the dirt, speaking with the dead, omens of bird flight etc.

people seek divinations (of whatever variety) in the belief that they can either obtain information about the future, or at least, gain an alternate view of present circumstances.

why would they do this? in the case of stereotypical 'fortune telling' it is to learn about the future, probably driven by either curiosity of fear. because the future is unknown to us, the idea that certain tools can penetrate that veil is attractive.

and...uhh...oh....crap. i should've thought about this more before i started typing.

grr.






would it be fair to say that occult/symbol systems lend themselves to being used for divination?

(divination being one of multiple possible uses)

As in real live prognostication?

Please tell me nobody really believes in that shit.
GET IT OFF ME!

LHX

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2007, 09:22:46 pm »
As in real live prognostication?

Please tell me nobody really believes in that shit.
some people believe in it

i dont think anybody here does

but
i guess it all depends on what you mean by prognostication


if you mean you can find out who is gonna win the world series?
no

but if you mean that the release of the apple iPhone is going to have some predictable re-percussions
yes
neat hell

Mangrove

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2007, 09:25:36 pm »
i'm trying to find a succinct way to sum up as many divinatory systems as possible.

"a collection of arbitrary symbols overlaid upon a theoretical structure & employed for purposes of interpretation with regards to the future or for gaining alternative perspective/insight in connection with a present situation."

does that fit them all?

What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

Cain

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2007, 09:26:29 pm »
Tantra is hardcore, but shorter.  However, you have a greater chance of burnout.

99.9% of occult truths are bullshit, or pretty obvious to anyone who takes the time to work these out.  There is more enlightenment in a passage from Machiavelli or Nietzsche than certain self-proclaimed gurus of today and years gone by.  I hardly call Paul of Tarsus an enlightened being, for example.

Mangrove

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2007, 09:29:17 pm »
Cain: The Mythmaker - Paul and the invention of Christianity.

Very interesting take on Paul, from a Jewish persepective. Don't agree with all of the author's conclusions, but his insight into Pharisees, Saducees etc is very compelling.

What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

LHX

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2007, 09:30:12 pm »
i'm trying to find a succinct way to sum up as many divinatory systems as possible.

"a collection of arbitrary symbols overlaid upon a theoretical structure & employed for purposes of interpretation with regards to the future or for gaining alternative perspective/insight in connection with a present situation."

does that fit them all?



holy fuck

thats actually some fine craftsmanship right there
neat hell

Cain

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2007, 09:30:39 pm »
I liked the section in The Will to Power on Paul myself. Nietzsche drew some very shrewd conclusions, which seem to be quite well accepted among academia currently.

Doc Howl

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2007, 09:30:48 pm »
As in real live prognostication?

Please tell me nobody really believes in that shit.
some people believe in it

i dont think anybody here does

but
i guess it all depends on what you mean by prognostication


if you mean you can find out who is gonna win the world series?
no

but if you mean that the release of the apple iPhone is going to have some predictable re-percussions
yes

Well, that is a relief.
GET IT OFF ME!

LHX

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2007, 09:34:44 pm »
i'm trying to find a succinct way to sum up as many divinatory systems as possible.

"a collection of arbitrary symbols overlaid upon a theoretical structure & employed for purposes of interpretation with regards to the future or for gaining alternative perspective/insight in connection with a present situation."

does that fit them all?




here is some refinement:

we might be able to take out arbitrary:


a divination system:

- a collection of symbols overlaid on a theoretical structure

- used for purposes of interpreting the future
or
for gaining a alternate perspective on a present situation
neat hell

Mangrove

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2007, 09:36:16 pm »
thanks LHX.

i mean, so many cultures invented some form of divinatory practise, some of them simple, some of they mind boggling complex, but (IMO) all born from the same impulse.

at the most basic level it's this:

think of something
juggle some symbols
interpret according to the theory
re-think


What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

Mangrove

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2007, 09:39:12 pm »
are not the choice of symbols arbitrary?

What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

Doc Howl

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2007, 09:40:57 pm »
I'm now totally lost.

Is there a glossary for noobs? 
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LHX

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Re: Fleshing out Occult - refinement of diagrams
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2007, 09:42:55 pm »
thanks LHX.

i mean, so many cultures invented some form of divinatory practise, some of them simple, some of they mind boggling complex, but (IMO) all born from the same impulse.

at the most basic level it's this:

think of something
juggle some symbols
interpret according to the theory
re-think




agreed

the structure of divinatory systems seems virtually identical in all cases
(from what i know of at least)


same animal in different clothes

are not the choice of symbols arbitrary?


i think the choice of symbols CAN BE arbitrary
but the choice of symbols can also be based on a symbol system that is already in place (like the i ching)
neat hell