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[P3nT4gR4m]

Um... I'm sure this isn't concrete data, nor Beyesean evidence, but Mrs LMNO was in rough shape for many years, and went through therapy for more, and then finally decided to begin drug therapy. She currently is more confident, emotionally stable, and happier than almost any time since we met, or at least for a longer period of time.

I readily agree that talk therapy set her up for this seeming success, but the pills are what have sent it past the tipping point.

I'm not saying that pills don't work. Obviously, they do work for enough people to make them a worthwhile avenue of treatment fully deserving of future research. I'm saying that the mechanisms behind why they work are only poorly understood in the best of cases. Just as alchemy eventually gave birth to chemistry, psychology is moving in the direction of birthing a real science, too.

Try getting a shrink to own up to this when they're recommending upping the dosage of something that already has you climbing the walls, tho. Not hypothetical BTW 

[Junkenstein]

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-story-about-a-startup-ceo-who-just-got-canned-months-after-turning-down-100-million-will-make-your-stomach-turn-2013-2

Photo-sharing app Instagram had just been acquired by Facebook for $1 billion, and Viddy – often called the Instagram-for-Video – had about 30 million monthly users.
The company was so hot that O'Brien was reportedly approached by Twitter, which wanted to buy the company for ~$100 million.
O'Brien turned down the money.

[AFK]

Um... I'm sure this isn't concrete data, nor Beyesean evidence, but Mrs LMNO was in rough shape for many years, and went through therapy for more, and then finally decided to begin drug therapy. She currently is more confident, emotionally stable, and happier than almost any time since we met, or at least for a longer period of time.

I readily agree that talk therapy set her up for this seeming success, but the pills are what have sent it past the tipping point.

I'm not saying that pills don't work. Obviously, they do work for enough people to make them a worthwhile avenue of treatment fully deserving of future research. I'm saying that the mechanisms behind why they work are only poorly understood in the best of cases. Just as alchemy eventually gave birth to chemistry, psychology is moving in the direction of birthing a real science, too.

Try getting a shrink to own up to this when they're recommending upping the dosage of something that already has you climbing the walls, tho. Not hypothetical BTW 

Oh, I know this isn't hypothetical, and it happens with all kinds of meds, not just those for mental health situations.  My prediction is within the next decade or two, it will be found that there has been some level of collusion between pharmaceutical companies and physicians.

[Junkenstein]

That's already been found. There's a few studies showing that physicians (any kind of physician) are more likely to prescribe drugs that they have had a sales rep talk to them about. Most were quite adamant that they didn't do this kind of thing as well and were genuinely surprised to find out it was the case.

[Elder Iptuous]

That's already been found. There's a few studies showing that physicians (any kind of physician) are more likely to prescribe drugs that they have had a sales rep talk to them about. Most were quite adamant that they didn't do this kind of thing as well and were genuinely surprised to find out it was the case.

My brother in law is a drug rep, and based on his descriptions of the day to day, i would say that any doctor that acts surprised that they are swayed by their visits are either disingenuous, or fools.  neither of which is a particularly good quality for a doc, imo.

[Junkenstein]

From memory the study attributed it to neither, just everyday subtle influence. Most of them were quite surprised when they were told they suggested brand X over Y the vast majority of the time.

Turns out having a poster or stack of post-its or whatnot glanced at daily boosts sales.

I wouldn't totally rule out some form of corruption in some instances, but it does appear to me as accidental bias.

[P3nT4gR4m]

From memory the study attributed it to neither, just everyday subtle influence. Most of them were quite surprised when they were told they suggested brand X over Y the vast majority of the time.

Turns out having a poster or stack of post-its or whatnot glanced at daily boosts sales.

I wouldn't totally rule out some form of corruption in some instances, but it does appear to me as accidental bias.

I'd hardly call it accidental, since that's the whole point of giving out mouse mats and mugs in the first place.

[Elder Iptuous]

right. not accidental.
just advertisement. influence through repetition
and, essentially, bribery. when he was in the sales rep position, he would get in trouble if he didn't spend his quota on wining and dining the docs.  and it was a hefty chunk of change, too.  sounded like Brewster's Millions to me.

[Junkenstein]

Ah, sorry I put that badly. I meant more subliminal than accidental. You see the mousemat. You mock the mousemat and sales rep. Then recommend their shit. Applies to every industry I've encountered.

I think i'm getting at it not being overtly corrupt, in the main part. Excessive meals and "corporate days" aside.

[LMNO]

There's been some studies on compliance in clinical psychology which totally line up with that.  It's explained as an exploitation of a social species.  We have some ingrained habits that help a society stay functional, but those habits can be turned for use other than intended.

Yes, I read that in a book.  It's called Influence: Science and Practice.  I quite liked it.

[Junkenstein]

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/palestinian-territories/prisoner-x-s-death-strains-ties-1.1146345

Canberra: He was known as Prisoner X, his crimes unknown. For months he languished in an Israeli prison until he was found dead in his cell in an apparent suicide. Later, rumours would swirl that he was an Australian-Israeli who worked for the Israeli secret service Mossad.
The web of secrecy surrounding the man with at least three names - Ben Zygier, Ben Alon, and Ben Allen - is slowly lifting after Australia's public broadcaster revealed details of his case, unravelling the media blackout that the Israeli government had imposed for more than two years using military censorship laws. The report has also forced the Australian government to admit that it had known about the case all along but kept it under wraps.

Well I'm sure Israel will react to this in the reasonable and measured manner of not giving a shit.

[Cain]

Wasn't this one of the guy's suspected of having pretended to be an American while recruiting Jundullah terrorists for assassination ops in Iran?

[P3nT4gR4m]

The details revealed by the Australian Broadcasting Corp and the admissions by the governments of Australia and Israel are testing relations between the two allies, and raising questions about the extent of Mossad's influence in other countries.

A clandestine organisation existing with the sole purpose of conducting wet ops and false-flag terrorist actions on foreign soil looks like it might be operating in other countries? Surely not 

[Junkenstein]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/14/nate-silver-admits-that-polls-can-affect-elections/

Nate Silver is worried that his polling might actually influence election results. "The polls can certainly affect elections at times. I hope people don't take the forecasts too seriously," he reportedly said during a recent speech sponsored by the Washington University Political Review on Monday night.

"If it gets really weird in 2014, in 2016, then maybe I'll stop doing it," he added. "I don't want to influence the democratic process in a negative way."

[Junkenstein]

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2013/02/decoding-the-science-in-obamas-s.html?ref=hp

You wouldn't believe it, but the Science or FACTS that politicians refer to are not exactly science or facts.