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[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Dude, by that guy's logic (this is OK in their culture of origin, therefore it's OK for me while I'm there) it's also OK to have sex with 8-year-old boys in Thailand.

Slippery slope, ya know?

My thought is that if he wants to do things that are acceptable in the Congo but not in his own culture of origin, he should go right ahead and emigrate. Once he's a citizen of the Congo, he can fully enjoy the benefits of that culture.

So you're saying that the morality of individuals should be based on their passport?

It seems to me, that an individual is free to do whatever they want. If society has passed some law against it, then he might have to deal with the consequences of the act. If society has placed a taboo on the act (such as this one), then he might have to deal with being seen as a pariah and maybe lose his job.

If I go to Amsterdam and smoke a joint, American courts should not be able to try me for breaking the law. The law is not tied to where I'm from, but rather, where I am. As much as this guy may be an asshole, weirdo, freak... I don't think he should be tried here for something he did elsewhere. HOWEVER, in this case, he videotaped the acts and brought the videos back here. THAT is illegal and I think he should be fully prosecuted for it.

As an ambassador, the laws apply differently to him because his embassy is, legally, part of he country he represents, and he is bound by the laws of his country.

And yes, if the crime is severe enough, the law DOES provide that he be tried on his home soil for crimes committed abroad. And while people's morality is not dependent upon the country that issued their passport, it does provide a cultural context by which that morality can be judged. If he wants the cultural context of the Congo, he should adopt it. Fully. Not enjoy the benefits of British citizenship while claiming a loophole provided by Congo culture.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Dude, by that guy's logic (this is OK in their culture of origin, therefore it's OK for me while I'm there) it's also OK to have sex with 8-year-old boys in Thailand.

Slippery slope, ya know?

My thought is that if he wants to do things that are acceptable in the Congo but not in his own culture of origin, he should go right ahead and emigrate. Once he's a citizen of the Congo, he can fully enjoy the benefits of that culture.

So you're saying that the morality of individuals should be based on their passport?

It seems to me, that an individual is free to do whatever they want. If society has passed some law against it, then he might have to deal with the consequences of the act. If society has placed a taboo on the act (such as this one), then he might have to deal with being seen as a pariah and maybe lose his job.

If I go to Amsterdam and smoke a joint, American courts should not be able to try me for breaking the law. The law is not tied to where I'm from, but rather, where I am. As much as this guy may be an asshole, weirdo, freak... I don't think he should be tried here for something he did elsewhere. HOWEVER, in this case, he videotaped the acts and brought the videos back here. THAT is illegal and I think he should be fully prosecuted for it.

As an ambassador, the laws apply differently to him because his embassy is, legally, part of he country he represents, and he is bound by the laws of his country.

Well, I think that only applies ON the property of the embassy, not in the brothel next door. Now, I certainly agree that an ambassador should be setting an example and this incident should make him ineligible to serve as a representative of his government. But, that has far more to do with "representing" other people, than the legal or illegal nature of the act. If I ran through the corporate office wearing nothing but a jock strap, I would probably lose my job, but not be prosecuted.

And yes, if the crime is severe enough, the law DOES provide that he be tried on his home soil for crimes committed abroad.

As far as I've been able to find, that would apply to torture, war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes that infringe on the national interests of the State (like counterfeiting).

And while people's morality is not dependent upon the country that issued their passport, it does provide a cultural context by which that morality can be judged. If he wants the cultural context of the Congo, he should adopt it. Fully. Not enjoy the benefits of British citizenship while claiming a loophole provided by Congo culture.

I disagree. I think that such a view is a huge overreach on the part of the State. I have enough problems with society telling me what is and isn't morally permissible within the borders of the nation. I reject the concept that they maintain that right once I've left their borders.

I reject the argument that these girls were somehow 'more mature' that 14 year olds in the US. That's bullshit, the guy wanted to jump some teenage lolitas and he did. Sadly their government doesn't do shit to protect them. However, it is NOT the right, duty or privilege of this government to involve itself, except, that they should totally fire the jackass and make sure that every future employer knows his tastes.

Now, since he brought child porn into the US... they should throw the book at him, but that's a perv of a different color.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, it may very well BE illegal in the Congo (no idea what legal age is there, but not many countries have a legal age under 16) but how would he be prosecuted there? Extradition?

According to your logic, sex tourists who rape little kids in Thailand should be immune from prosecution if they make it home without getting prosecuted.

[LMNO]

I wonder... is it a crime to book a flight in the US with the express intent of comitting otherwise legal acts?


Probably not.  My extent of the law about this is limited to Law and Order: SVU, but I do recall some dialogue about:

STABLER:  "Those scumbags can just get away with it?"

MCCOY: "Yes.  But they won't escape the law forever."

(15 minutes later, they're all prosecuted for mail fraud, or something.)

[AFK]

I think you're getting your Law and Order's mixed up. 

And also, I don't care about the legality.  I just want someone to stuff him in one of the refrigerators we have lying around here.  In fact, I'd volunteer to do the stuffing. 

[Contessa_Ugolino]

This post 100% pedo free! Despite involving the Catholic Church!

Italian monk releases second heavy metal album: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7513571.stm

[AFK]

See, and this is why I can't dog Christians across the board.  Because for every Robertson/Dobbs nutjob, you've got someone like Brother Cesare here, who seems to actually be tuned into reality.  Also, I'm going to look for more of his music. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This post 100% pedo free! Despite involving the Catholic Church!

Italian monk releases second heavy metal album: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7513571.stm

He's so adorable! I love him!

[Voodoo]

When I first saw this headline, in my mind I could hear George Bush saying, "the free market works!"

"Moscow's sex slave trade reportedly thriving" http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/18/russia.prostitution/index.html


edit for grammer spelling

[AFK]

In better late then never news:

Radovan Karadzic has finally been apprehended.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25787633

I really hope someone airs the fucker's trial. 

ETA:  He's the Hitler wannabee/fanboi who orchestrated the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims and Croats in Srebenica and other locales in Bosnia.  In case you were wondering. 

[Cain]

Only 12 years overdue.

[Cain]

Against the death penalty?

You = subversive anarchist.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/92212/

Finally, at long last, I have something in common with Muhammad Ali.

No, I'm not the heavyweight champion of the world, and haven't been named spokesperson for Raid bug spray. Like "the Greatest" - not to mention far too many others -- I have been a target of state police surveillance for activities -- in my case against the death penalty -- that were legal, non-violent, and, so we assumed, constitutionally protected. In classified reports compiled by the Maryland State Police and the Department of Homeland Security, I am "Dave Z." This nickname was given by an undercover agent known to us as "Lucy." She sat in our meetings of the Campaign to End the Death Penalty, smiling and engaged, taking copious notes about actions deemed threatening by the Governor of Maryland, Robert Ehrlich. Our seditious crimes, as Lucy reported, involved such acts as planning to set up a table at the local farmer's market and writing up a petition. Adding a dash of farce to this outrage, she was monitoring us in the liberal enclave of Takoma Park, Maryland, a place known more for vegans than violence, more for tie-dying than terrorism.

Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act and the ACLU, we now know that "Lucy" was only one part of a vast, insidious project. The Maryland State Police's Department of Homeland Security devoted near 300 hours and thousands of taxpayer dollars from 2005 and 2006 to harassing people whose only crime was dissenting on the question of the war in Iraq and Maryland's use of death row.

My dear friend Mike Stark, a board member of the Campaign to End the Death Penalty is at times referred to in "Lucy's" report as a "socialist" and an "anarchist." One can only assume this is the pathetic time honored tradition of reducing people to simple caricatures, all the better to garner Homeland Security grant money.

Veteran peace activist in Baltimore, Max Obuszewski, who initiated the suit, was as well consistently shadowed as he walked down the streets. His "primary crime" (their lingo) was entered into the homeland security database as "terrorism - anti govern(ment)." His "secondary crime" was listed as "terrorism -- anti-war protesters." The database is known as the Washington-Baltimore High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, or HIDTA. Yes, a respected peace organizer of many decades standing is checked as a terrorist, his actions listed as criminal, for doing nothing more than exercising his rights. It boggles the mind.

Former police superintendent Tim Hutchins defended these totalitarian practices by saying, "You do what you think is best to protect the general populace of the state." (The article mentioned that Hutchins is now a federal defense contractor. I guess The Global War on Terror is just the gift that keeps on giving for the Hutchins family.)

But "protect the general populace" from what? The surveillance continued even after it was determined that we were planning nothing more dangerous that carrying clipboards in a public place. Hutchins and the Ehrlich administration have undertaken an ugly violation of our civil rights, manipulating fears of terrorism to stamp out dissent.

[AFK]

Only 12 years overdue.

Only Ratko remains.  Supposedly hiding out somewhere in Belgrade, Serbia.  Apparently the new pro-Western regime in Serbia greased the wheels to find and apprehend Karadzic.  I imagine they'd love to get this shit behind them so it isn't a constant stain on their reputation. 

[AFK]

Also, apparently he evaded capture for 13 years by disguising himself as Santa Claus. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Adorable goddamn baby bats:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495789/Adorable-baby-bats--honestly--snuggled-wool-animal-shelter.html