News:

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed." - Jesus

Main Menu

A comment on feminism

Started by Lies, April 02, 2007, 09:54:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2
User actions

Lies

April 02, 2007, 09:54:39 AM
Ok, so this has been ripped from somewhere else, basically, it's a comment on my thoughts in regards to feminism, and I'm interested in what you guys (And gals... doesn't seem to be a lot of you here though :P) think of it.

I've been reading some stuff on stanselen's blog actually, and followed a few links to feminist writing.
Personally, while I understand why feminism is here, I don't actually understand it too well. I think that some feminists are a bit loopy, (coming from someone who prides loopiness, I think this says something...) and have some wrong ideas about what starts what.

I really haven't looked that far deeply into feminism, so I honestly can't comment too much without giving a biased opinion, I mean, I'm all for equal rights and all but I just don't buy into the "patriarchy" crap, men and women both have it fucking tough and both have their advantages.

I'm not going to start ranting about what I think is wrong with feminism, because honestly, I haven't looked too deeply into it. (But thats not to say that I haven't had a bit of a dabble, and from what I have dabbled in, I get very mixed feelings about the logic of it... some I can sympathise with where its coming from, but some just make me think "where the hell did they come up with this crap?". No offence meant, but that's just how I honestly think)

I've met a few feminists in my journies, many of whom were quite cool, and could happily converse and discuss interesting topics, with both parties taking away something new from each other, but I've also met a few... pardon the un-P.Cness of it, but i feel it kinda has to be said, "Feminazis", that won't give me the time of day to talk with them on a "devils advocate" level because I happen to have a dick, and so they actually *scare* me a little, because they go on as to why male capitalist thinking is evil and wrong, and won't really listen to reason, because by default, all I have to say is inherently "wrong" in their eyes, and I get worried that if I try to rationalise with them I might temporatily lose the functioning of a body part I'm quite fond of....

So, don't get me wrong, I don't *hate* feminism, I just have trouble understanding it and where they're coming from with certain trains of thought.

Me personally, have felt that I've always treated women right, and have had relationships with girls who were victims of rape, of whom they were way more kinkier and hornier and watched more porn then I do, it kinda confused me when I first started having relations with a few girls, who not long into the relationship, would admit to me that they were victims of abuse... and then ask me to spank them and call them filthy whores and bitches, which personally... I find a little strange...but whatever makes them "happy" I suppose.

In anycase, I still have a bit to learn in that area, but from my own personal experience and understanding of the female mind, (which is by no means perfect but I feel it to be better then most males understanding of women, this has been confirmed to me by quite a few female friends, I don't want to come across as tooting my own horn, but thems what I honestly thinks is true...) personally, my area of expertise is more in the religious doctrines of the world, which I'll happily rant on about what exactly is wrong with it, cus I have plenty of ammo there, but I'm not going to declare war on feminism because I really don't know enough about it.

Personally, I'd like to talk to more feminists and try and work this whole thing out once and for all, and I can see one of two outcomes if my suspicions are correct, and that being that I could possibly start a viral meme into a rethinking of the feminist agenda, or I'll realise how perveted and sick I've been to be a male and opt to get a sex change in tailand.

Now, I hope this comment has been "neutral" and "reasonable" enough for any of you ultra fems out there reading this, try not to hate me for questioning the value of feminism and being a guy, I'm merely expressing what I feel as a "neutral" observer. I've tried to be as honest as I can without intent to offend, but, as past experiences with some of you lot has taught me, theres just no pleasing everyone.

Love, light and chaos, bitches!
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order... is you!

Cramulus

#1
April 02, 2007, 03:37:31 PM
The examples you give, above, are not about feminism, but about crazy people who preach about feminism. I think you're confusing feminism with feminists.

Any given ideology has its share of fanatics.

Odds are you've met numerous people who identify with the label "feminist" and never knew it because they didn't go around preaching about it.

Cain

#2
April 02, 2007, 03:43:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Feminist_theory

There are lots of variations.  Some, the most popular, are good (egalitarian and postmodern, for example).  Some, however, are bloody awful (Andrea Dworkin and essentialist feminism, for example).  Like any large ideology, its usually best to define what sections of it you wish to discriminate against.  For example, I would not say "liberalism" is neccessarily bad, but free market libertarianism is.  And then I would explain why, especially focusing on how it undercuts its original message.

B_M_W

#3
April 02, 2007, 04:02:10 PM
Egalitarian feminism is good. It simply promotes equal opportunity for both genders. But then you get into these modern and radical feminists, and some of them actually scare me. Sexism is still sexism, no matter what direction its going.

Personally, I find the idea of one gender superior to the other to be a bizzare idea. I seriously don't understand this whole idea of feminine or masculine pride.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0

6.5 billion Buddhas walking around.

99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

LMNO

#4
April 02, 2007, 04:23:31 PM
I'm with BMW.  I think it's ok to be proud/happy/confident in who you are, but that would be more of an individual pride rather than an gender pride.

Cram said it best:  There are stupid people everywhere.  Don't confuse stupid people with what they think they believe.

The Good Reverend Roger

#5
April 02, 2007, 05:24:17 PM
ATTENTION: 

SUSAN B ANTHONY WAS A FEMINIST.

ANDREA DWORKIN AND SUSAN BROWNMILLER ARE NOT FEMINISTS.

FEMINISM != "ALL MEN ARE EVIL".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

#6
April 02, 2007, 06:01:15 PM
I'm a reactive chauvinist. That is to say if you want to get in an argument over who's gender is the best then I'll come down on your oestrogenic fairy tales like a hail of testosterone napalm!

Men win fights, ladies wanna start one? Fine I was built for that shit.

Otherwise I'm kinda down with equal rights and shit. I've said it before, indiscriminate hate satisfies the bile ducts much more completely than targeting little drips and drabs of the overall demographic.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

The Good Reverend Roger

#7
April 02, 2007, 06:06:34 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 02, 2007, 06:01:15 PM
Otherwise I'm kinda down with equal rights and shit. I've said it before, indiscriminate hate satisfies the bile ducts much more completely than targeting little drips and drabs of the overall demographic.


Bing.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Jenne

#8
April 03, 2007, 06:57:44 AM
*gets out ten foot pole*

Really, these very reasonable dudes have about said it all.  You're looking at the extreme end of the movement and equating them all--but in explaining yourself you point out that this couldn't possibly be the whole of the story.  And you are right.

If you know WHY there had to be a Feminist movement, then you know all there really is that's important.  There are still areas in the world where this is pertinent...but the extremists tend to overcrowd that issue with their own idiocy.  Very sad.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to identify with or understand the wackos.  Just don't broadbrush the whole movement due to their crappy attitudes toward men.

Lies

#9
April 03, 2007, 07:31:25 AM
Thanks guys, you've givin me a lot to digest and have been very helpful in this issue for me.
Always handy to get some clarification about these things, all were very helpful answers.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order... is you!

DJRubberducky

#10
April 03, 2007, 07:42:57 PM
Andrea Dworkin wants to categorize the pagan goddess symbols such as the Venus of Willendorf as pornographic because they overemphasize the breasts and hips of the female form.

That's really all I ever needed to hear to write her off as a whackjob.  :argh!:
- DJRubberducky
Quote from: LMNODJ's post is sort of like those pills you drop into a glass of water, and they expand into a dinosaur, or something.

Black sheep are still sheep.

The Good Reverend Roger

#11
April 03, 2007, 07:45:25 PM
Quote from: DJRubberducky on April 03, 2007, 07:42:57 PM
Andrea Dworkin wants to categorize the pagan goddess symbols such as the Venus of Willendorf as pornographic because they overemphasize the breasts and hips of the female form.

That's really all I ever needed to hear to write her off as a whackjob.  :argh!:

She also made sure the Susan B Anthony dollar's depiction of Ms Anthony was ugly as fuck.  I mean even uglier than she really was.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

#12
April 03, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
She also thinks that all sex is rape.

The Good Reverend Roger

#13
April 03, 2007, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 03, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
She also thinks that all sex is rape.

I thought that was Susan Brownmiller's thing.

Anyway, I just tried to find the ms magazine forums again (boy, are THEY fun to troll!) but they've hidden them. :(
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

#14
April 03, 2007, 07:54:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2007, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 03, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
She also thinks that all sex is rape.

I thought that was Susan Brownmiller's thing.

Anyway, I just tried to find the ms magazine forums again (boy, are THEY fun to troll!) but they've hidden them. :(

It was Dworkin.  She considered a liberatory war should be fought between the sexes, in true Franz Fanon style.  IOW, she was totally 100% nuts and really needed to get laid.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2
User actions