the matrix is solved

[P3nT4gR4m]

(And actually, that's my husband in the picture.  Portland Zoo, July 2003.)

Who's the fellow wearing the jeans tho?

Cybin,

Can nevar resist

[Triple Zero]

As a handle for one on one conversation with someone though, I think it's handy to have the Matrix, though obviously, you couldn't rely on that alone.

That's where I rest my case. Matrix - massive plus. Gives a useful meme to describe complicated metaphysic. This is the most any film, work of art or ideological movement will ever accomplish.

exactly. this is what i was tyring to say. no more no less.

000 was talking about using the Matrix as a shorthand to explain BIP principles.

I feel that the Matrix doesn't do this.

as Payne said, you can't rely on that alone. it just partly serves as a useful shorthand for part of the story. you cannot explain all of the BIP ideas with the Matrix (that wouldn't work, because some points of the BIP simply aren't in there), and you need to leave bits of the movie out (because they're bullshit or don't help with bringing the point across, or even oppose it).

but certain parts of the movie can serve as a useful illustration to certain parts of the BIP principles.

that's all i wanted to say.

i hope i cleared it up with that. it wasn't much i was trying to say

[Cain]

Of course, certain parts of nearly everything can elucidate certain points of nearly everything else, depending how vague and specific you want to get.  And if you have to remove much of it from the context, then I would question its overall utility.

[LMNO]

It seems that the process of explaining exactly which points of the movie to hold onto, and which to reject, would take about as long, or even longer, than explaining the BIP points themselves.

[Triple Zero]

okay.

in my experience, it has been a useful shorthand for explaining people this kind of stuff. and as far as i could tell they were able to visualize from a few pointers and the phrase "kind of like in the matrix" the concept of "fully immersive VR, appearing so real, you wouldn't even realize it wasn't" without confusing it with robotic squid, kung fu, red pills, blue pills and most of them didn't even bring the "your mind only makes it real/there is no spoon/what if we could hack reality just like neo" dreams into it.

but perhaps i only pick the "easy" crowd.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

matrix takes the point you'd like to make and turns it into a fucked up twisted trip into solipsism when mixed with the feeble mental framework and emotional instability that you'll find in close to 99.3% of the populace.

therefore, matrix=fail.

or, at least when I talk about snapping out of the bullshit world you're living in, I am not telling them EVERYTHING IS FAKE AND YUO ARE CARDBOARD SO MAKE LIKE SCISSORS AND CUT IT OUT ALREADY.

no.

I mean, the bullshit world they live in is the arbitrary social order superimposed on the physical world you're actually in (which is quite real, just ask anybody who jumped out of the WTC).  That social order is the bullshit, and "dropping out" or "waking up" is not a fundamental change in the way you perceive your reality, as the uninitiated might expect if you were coming at them from the Matrix angle.

It's like the first time i smoked pot.  I kept waiting for all the flashy colors and shit you see on TV when somebody smokes pot, and when I found out the 'head change' was just a mushy feeling more like being in the depths of a bad flu than that, it was anticlimactic.

[Cain]

[LMNO]

It's like the first time i smoked pot.  I kept waiting for all the flashy colors and shit you see on TV when somebody smokes pot, and when I found out the 'head change' was just a mushy feeling more like being in the depths of a bad flu than that, it was anticlimactic.

LMNO
-still gets high sometimes, however.

[P3nT4gR4m]

You can imagine my surprise the first time I tripped on shrooms. Especially considering I'd taken them a few times before I actually tripped out on em. 

[Cramulus]

Were you surprised because it didn't look like this?




Or because it did?

[Cain]

Thats how all South American TV looks like, even the fucking period dramas and thrillers.  Its how the streets look too, after taking Ayahuasca.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

Heh, how'd that work out for you?

[Cain]

Not that great.  Having the shits while in a desert, and while backpacking in general are not that fantastic.

[Cramulus]

I've always wondered - how do you pronounce "Ayahuasca"?

If you care to talk about it, I'd be very interested in hearing more about all that

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

ah jah wa ska