Circuits of the Stars

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If, for the purpose of this discussion, we tentatively accept Leary's model of Consciousness (8-Circuit Grid) http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-8-systems.html as a useful map of human consciousness, where would you place the following individuals (based on their primary/public actions) and why? Further, do these cases seem to support Leary's thoughts on the progression of consciousness or refute it:

George W. Bush
Al Gore
Steven Hawking
Paris Hilton
Pat Robertson

That should be a good start to this thread... post your thoughts on the circuitry of these people, post your own list of people, post well, whatever the hell you think would be useful to such a thread.

[Cain]

2
3
5
2
3

On gut instinct.  I'm using more RAW's model, but they are pretty much the same, as I recall.

Its an interesting model...of course, some people will be hard to place because they oscillate between a large range, which any model should take into account....but there are far worse ones.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

2
3
5
2
3

On gut instinct.  I'm using more RAW's model, but they are pretty much the same, as I recall.

Its an interesting model...of course, some people will be hard to place because they oscillate between a large range, which any model should take into account....but there are far worse ones.

I personally use RAW's explanation of Leary's Model as well... he just does a better job of laying it out

It's interesting that many people would see Gore and Robertson as very different, yet it does seem to me as well, that they're operating with the same basic programming. Hawking seems to emulate the positive aspects of the fifth circuit and Paris, I think, perhaps the more hedonistic aspects (though I'd be interested to hear why you placed her at 2nd)... I think GWB may have started at third, but 9/11 seems to have brought out his 2nd quite strongly.

I also agree with your summation of the Model. It's not True, its  just a model... one that I find rather useful

[LMNO]

Y'all don't see Hawkins as almost entirely 3rd circuit?  Manipulation and use of symbols?


Higher math and astrophysics?  Hello?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

LMNO,

I agree to some extent... however, Hawking does seem to have a lot of post-terrestrial thought. For the past several years he's been a very strong advocate of humans leaving this particular mudball... maybe I should have asked for a listing of pertinent circuits for each individual.

Hawking 5/3
Hilton 5/4
GWB 2/3 (or 3/2? I suppose it depends on how much he actually believes about the whole War on Terror thing)
Robertson 3/2
Al Gore 3/4

At least that's my guess....

[Cain]

Thats a pretty good way of expressing it, actually.  Allows for a lot more nuance.

As for Paris....I'm not sure why I rated her as a 2.  Something that came across from a few interviews and her reactions to her album being slated, seemed quite 2-like.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Thats a pretty good way of expressing it, actually.  Allows for a lot more nuance.

As for Paris....I'm not sure why I rated her as a 2.  Something that came across from a few interviews and her reactions to her album being slated, seemed quite 2-like.

I would guess that mosbunal artists would pop into 2nd circuit defense when it came to their art

[P3nT4gR4m]

The impression I got from the 8 circuit model was one of progression through assimilation, in that the activation of a higher circuit would not preclude the lower circuits which would still remain in operation.

For me it becomes a kind of game when one reaches circuit 5, in that there is a tendency to lose c5 lucidity and get wrapped up in the lower circuits. The reason for this is that c5 doesn't replace these, it merely manifests as a level of awareness over and above.

Your mind is still obsessed with survival, territory, abstract pattern recognition and extrapolation (which imo is the heart of c3), and abstract social interactions. These circuits will endeavour to take precedence over the others in descending order. Put simply if your life is in immediate danger then your ability to think in abstracts will be compromised until circuit 2 is satisfied that you're out of the woods. Likewise you'd like to help out a friend or family member but not if it means you lose your house.

With C5 comes the quantum leap - awareness of the way the lower circuits are actually operating but try to keep a hold of this awareness when you're being attacked by a dude with a knife and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm not saying it's impossible, just tricky to begin with, becoming easier with practice.

What I think I'm saying is that everyone on the list will probably operate on the first 4 circuits as par for the course. You'd really have to have some kind of mental disorder to be missing one of these in this day and age, since they define observable human psychology. To class someone as predominantly displaying x-circuit characteristics is probably more to do with that persons situation than the type of person they are.

The higher circuits are the ones in question. I'm not entirely sure yet but I reckon somewhere around 5-6 is the awakening commonly referred to as 'enlightenment'
I think there's a lot of folks who haven't made this jump yet. These people are funny as hell because they are relatively easy to manipulate at 1-4 circuit level, for shits and giggles.

[LMNO]

Islly:  Yes.  Absolutely.

LMNO,
I agree to some extent... however, Hawking does seem to have a lot of post-terrestrial thought. For the past several years he's been a very strong advocate of humans leaving this particular mudball...

But the 5th circuit is neuro-somatic.  It has nothing to do with space travel.

[LMNO]

Also, Pat Robertson is working on a highly charged 4th circuit.  Socio-sexual?  Absolutley.

[Cramulus]

Well said, Silly, Well Said.


Recently, someone came over here and was subjected to flames and heat. When they went back to their board they were all disgusted with the "2nd circuit behavior" lail. Isn't looking down on someone for their 2nd circuit behavior in some way engaging in that same tribal power game? I worry that a lot of the people who buy into the 8-circuit model use it as their own means of feeling evolved and enlightened.



This is not in any way to say I don't dig the 8-circuit model. I just mean to say that knowledge of it doesn't stop you from being a jerk.

[LMNO]

Just like saying knowing about the BIP doesn't make you free, and just because you aknowledge pragmatism, you're barstool-proof.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The impression I got from the 8 circuit model was one of progression through assimilation, in that the activation of a higher circuit would not preclude the lower circuits which would still remain in operation.

I agree, however, both Leary and Wilson seemed to indicate that imprints at each circuit may be of differing levels for each individual. Thus someone who is held, cared for etc as a Baby, will be more likely to have a strong, positive First Circuit Imprint (cycles continues for the first four at least). So when we look at people in the limelight, I think we might often see where their strong imprints are, or which circuit they tend to 'default' to (or at least which one seems most active at that time in their life?). That's why I said "based on their primary/public actions". Gore, for example, doesn't seem to focus as much on anal/territorial (to me at least) but rather, he seems, I think, to baseline more on the semantic and social circuit. This doesn't particularly mean that his other circuits aren't working/present and ready to take over if necessary (say fight or flee moment of survival)... I just means that his personality, in my view, tends to center on communicating and social hierarchies (politics).

I think that we can point to aspects of anyone as examples of how their imprints of the four basic circuits appear to be set... but it does seem that the overall personality tends to center on one or two specific circuits. Though I don't think this necessarily holds true for V-VII since it may be that not everyone has activated these circuits yet (assuming that Leary's theories hold water... probably laced with LSD  ).

Mostly I would like to see people debating the labeling of stars based exactly on this principle. If we consider that all of the circuits are active in some sense, each of us may note a different flavor. My thoughts, Cains thoughts and LMNO's point on Robertson, for example, sent the Old Man through 2,3 and 4... and I suppose that if we wanted to we might even be able to argue that Robertson may actually be making use of Neuro-Somatic circuitry as a spiritual leader and may be invoking some basic fifth circuit scripts in his audience.

Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Recently, someone came over here and was subjected to flames and heat. When they went back to their board they were all disgusted with the "2nd circuit behavior" lail. Isn't looking down on someone for their 2nd circuit behavior in some way engaging in that same tribal power game? I worry that a lot of the people who buy into the 8-circuit model use it as their own means of feeling evolved and enlightened.

This is not in any way to say I don't dig the 8-circuit model. I just mean to say that knowledge of it doesn't stop you from being a jerk.

However, you do make a good point. Prometheus Rising talks about a lot of the "scripts" and many people tend to have a hard time staying in the "I'm OK, You're OK" script and often slip into either "I'm OK, You're Not OK", or "I'm Not OK, You're Not OK"... aka... everyone is a Cosmic Schmuck some times .

I would say that in the particular situation you mentioned, that maybe there was a lot more 4th circuit activity on both sides. However, sometimes its easier to just call the actions second circuit (Maybe, like calling someone a Doo Doo head in a very real sense?). The fellow you mentioned has been around for quite some time, has made very enlightened commentary on other boards, has been a great classmate in several different classes that I've taken over at MLA and all in all tends to have a high social position among the classic Erisians/Discordians etc. However, here there's a new social structure, with new social rules and new qualifications for rising in the social hierarchy. Thus, my opinion of the encounter, having watched the whole thing from both sides (quietly), was that it seemed very much a fourth circuit struggle between social leaders of two different tribes. In fact, it was that epiphany that, in part, lead me to start posting here. I found the complexity of the social systems within the overall Discordian subculture to be too good to pass up a chance for playing with it.

So far, I'm enjoying it. 

[Cramulus]

certainly - and to clarify, I totally like the fellow in question and even followed him over to the MLA forums where I lurked a bit.

In fact, him and I might both be alts of the same person.