Pathways: An open-source study and exploration. (Paths and Shrapnel)

[Mangrove]

more seriously though,

i think payne had some suggestions along the lines of the sun and radiation, which is an idea i quite like.

the sun - it's our source of life & light. it radiates constantly. this is like the constant exposure we have to communication. (unless

you're a total hermit).

every now and then, the sun sends off bursts (coronal mass ejections) of quite ridiculous magnitudes. billions of tons of

particles spewed at the earth at mind numbing speeds.

fortunately, the earth's magnetic field keeps us safe, for the most part. if the coronal mass ejections are big enough, they can

actually shred great lumps off the magnetic field. a really huge blast can wreak havoc with electrical systems on earth, overloading

grids and causing mass blackouts.

we've established by now (through the BIP metaphor) about the boundaries of our perception, being a combination that is

biological and conceptual. now we're looking for a new way to understand and explain an influx/outflux of memes.

(at risk of going down that road but: "every man and every woman is a star"?)

or rather, we're all stars in our BIPs.

it's just about the sunlight that shines between the bars.

[Payne]

Thank you for the summation! I'd have got round to putting it more like that at some point. Maybe.

The above is what I was reaching for.

[Mangrove]

Thank you for the summation! I'd have got round to putting it more like that at some point. Maybe.

The above is what I was reaching for.

you're welcome! 

to extend the analogy - just because yer dead, doesn't mean the radiation you gave off isn't still effecting people.


mangrove the radiation schismatic.

[Payne]

[Devils advocate]

The problem I found with this metaphor is it's too easy to extend it, sometimes.

Yes I agree with the longer than life term affects, but to this we can start to talk about the lifecycle of stars, gravitational effects, sun worship (either the ancient culture religious style, or the new cultures worship of bronzed bodies) and so on.

If this metaphor can be so wide ranging, is it that useful to us?

[/Devils advocate]

I'd normally say yes, but it would involve more work. I guess, though, that I'd be happier to work with a macro concept (the sun) as opposed to a micro one (like individual atoms)

[Mangrove]

Good point Payne. It could be that the metaphor is too wide.

Suggest compromise: Light bulb. Bigger than an atom, smaller than the sun.

[Payne]

And with that, we can also factor in more "unexpected events", like when you turn a light on in the middle of the night, and your eyee hurt while they adjust, we could use that metaphor for adjustment to new, uncomfortable concepts within communication.

[Mangrove]

And with that, we can also factor in more "unexpected events", like when you turn a light on in the middle of the night, and your eyee hurt while they adjust, we could use that metaphor for adjustment to new, uncomfortable concepts within communication.

there you go. everyone's in a BIP and we all get a prison standard light bulb.

someone e-mail Laz and tell him that we're not so 'dark' now.

[Payne]

Nu-BIP: Stark, Not Dark.

[Mangrove]

Love it.

I had a nice MSP pic in the works last night. But then I had some bad news, so I abandoned in favour
of storming around the house and employing the word 'cunt' to spectacular effect.

[Payne]

PATHS

I have tried to work some perspective into the paths idea. I've split these perspectives into four 'orders' perhaps this may help to pinpoint where we are coming from as we discuss this further.


   1st order- A hypothetical perspective from a constant (such as time)

   2nd order- Perspective from the upper range of our living perceptions, some small detail of the causes of deviation, a 'bigger picture' of the 'Path'

   3rd order- Perspective from the lower range of our living perceptions, more detail detail of the causes of deviation, a better understanding of an individual 'Path'

   4th order- A hypothetical perspective that sees the causes in great detail, but little of the 'Path'

   
In the first order, we can view paths as going straight from point 'A' to point 'B'. We intellectually know that there are certain changes in the path, but by measuring it by constants, such as time, we see no deviations. We see very little detail, and this could be perhaps summarised as, using the time example, as an entire life being condensed into a Birth Date and a Death Date, with no further information.
   
In the second order, we can see detail a bit better, we have more information. This means we can analyse the path, and the causes of any deviation, but without further information we can learn little of the life of this person. Could be summarised as a brief biography of a person, charting signifigant events, or knowing of a friend of a friend.
   
In the third order, we can see much more detail, we can chart much more rapid changes in the path, to greater detail, and have a deeper understanding on the causes of path deviation. We can, in effect, observe this path all the time by living our own lives, and analysing it.
   
Generally we float somewhere in between orders two and three, creating a working balance between observing our life, and living it.
   
The fourth order is entirely hypothetical. I think it may be possible to analyse the causes of path deviation more directly from this level, but without reference points to specific paths.

   

As we rise through the levels, quantifying cause and effect becomes more difficult. The straight line of the first order becomes a tangled mess of intermingled paths by the height of order three. We may breach a barrier between order three and four where the complexity of the knot of paths makes it unfeasible to analyse them further, and focus instead on the causes of path deviation.
   
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm naming the 'Causes of Path Deviation' Shrapnel, as we have nothing else to really call it, as yet.
   
Questions: How important are these considerations of 'Paths'? Can we make something worthwhile from documenting these observations?
   
Well, I hope this is useful, in some fashion. Feel free to bend it around to fit into a more user friendly format, or to break it up and use as firewood as we ponder these deep questions. Coming soon: A deeper look at Shrapnel.

[LMNO]

I'm seeing it like this:

1st Path: "ordinary" observation.
2nd Path: a "meta" observation of the path; "The Forest, not the Trees".
3rd Path: a "sub-meta" observation; "The Trees, not the Forest".
4th Path: a "meta-meta" observation; "This Forest, and the one over there, too".


Yes?

[Payne]

Well, I'd like to think of 2 and 3 as being more the 'ordinary' views, and 1 as being a splodge of green that you intellectuall know is a forest, but can't actually see.

But yes, if you prefer it that way, that works too.

[LMNO]

Hey, your way works for me.

1:  What is this shit?
2:  Hey, it's a Forest.
3:  Looks like there's Trees in this Forest.
4:  Hey, there's another Forest over there.
5:  Profit!

[Payne]

 


~~~Payne: Unsure whether you're making fun of me, but I laughed anyways.

[AFK]

I like this.  And it makes sense with what I was thinking.  And I think it is good to break it down like that.  I kind of see Level 4 as kind of taking it too far in away.  That is, it's a potential pitfall if you focus too much on the individual bits of shrapnel, and at every single step along the path, and then forget to zoom out and integrate it into the rest of what's going on.  In other words, Level 4 maybe kind of gets into a kind of Obsessive Compulsive view of the system.