Author Topic: e-prime sucks and so do you.  (Read 17211 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2007, 09:26:20 pm »
without statements of fact, how can you have a context for your questions?

in this case: are we talking about e-prime?

yes or no, not "it looks that way, so maybe some of us are"
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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2007, 10:26:29 pm »
I concur with Rat.  After reading the fundamentals of e' I have percieved a change in my thought patterns.  I don't consciously try to write in e', but it still seems affects me.  Even just thinking in my head or arguing with someone else. 

I actually think I have won (or at least ended) some arguements using it.  Letting people know "Well, that is just how I see it because of 'this'." and "How can either one of us be so sure?"  That logic forces them to take a second look at both ideas.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2007, 10:47:22 pm »
without statements of fact, how can you have a context for your questions?

in this case: are we talking about e-prime?

yes or no, not "it looks that way, so maybe some of us are"

e' like any other model appears useful in some situations, not useful in some situations and actively confusing in some situations. It seems to me that the best way to use maps may be when they're actually useful. I don't think I'd use a topographical map of Ohio to find directions to my house. Likewise, I don't think that Delorme Street Maps will tell me where the utility services are buried in my backyard.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Cain

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2007, 02:14:01 pm »
E-prime removes Platonic assumptions about the nature of reality from language and replaces it with a more subjective analysis.

When you say "something is something" what you are essentially saying is that the object in question shares the essence of the trait you are describing.  Therefore, if you say "Saddam Hussein is evil" you are not only making an assumption about the existence and nature of evil, you are also saying Saddam is an avatar of sorts for this trait.

It brings all sort of implicit assumptions that can create very nasty side effects.  It is no coincidence that both Christianity and Fascism can be traced back to Plato.  The basic assumptions of the existence of transcendental absolutes has always been a recipe for disaster in the hands of apes.  Because apes are thick as bricks and if they believe some group is harbouring the essence of evil, then they are totally justified in wiping it out, be it Jews or Heathens.

Bu☆ns

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2007, 04:33:36 pm »
if i remember correctly, the idea of e-prime was to convey speech nondogmaticly.  korby used to take his system very seriously and his 900 page paper "General Semantics" could probably be shortened incredibly. he had a tendancy to over inflate his ideas as an end/all to society's problems and discussed often how his non-aristotelian language could blah blah blah.

really the only benefit to using e-prime falls within 2 catagories of of the verb form "to be:"  that of identity and predication.

basicly when identifying something saying:

"That IS a dog." is based on your own ideas of what dog means to you.  if you've never seen a wolf, for instance, the dog could be a wolf.  etc. etc.

predication is more of forming an opinion about something. an opinion is only relative to the observer.

"your mother is ugly." but thats not necessarily true, becasue the father at some point thought her hot enough to plant his seed in her.
 
 if you're discussing your actions or intentions to use e-prime would seem to be silly.

"i am going to the store"  well i suppose one could SEEM to be going to the store but whats the point of going through all that when the facts are pretty much clear?

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2007, 02:15:28 pm »
without statements of fact, how can you have a context for your questions?

in this case: are we talking about e-prime?

yes or no, not "it looks that way, so maybe some of us are"


I really enjoy listening to music.



There; now "Some of us are mostly talking about E-Prime."



 :p

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2007, 02:59:22 pm »
do not disrupt my continuum of absolute fact or my holy crusade against gray areas.

discordian forum: if grayfaces are bad, imagine what havoc could be wreaked by entire gray areas.
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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2007, 05:46:18 pm »
actually a gray area is the result of smearing a grayface at high velocity over a piece of concrete.

i don't see what's the problem with that.
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e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2007, 10:51:26 pm »
wtf is it with e-prime?

is it really supposed to enhance the accuracy and precision of your speech/writing? no, that is a lie. it is not supposed to enhance anything. it's just politically-correct "make sure you don't offend anybody" bullshit.

fuck that. if your opinion sucks, i'll say so. if you don't like it, then tell me my opinion sucks.

you'll be wrong but you'll feel better.

why should i waste half of my effort in saying something just to make sure you understand that i'm only expressing an opinion?  if you can't tell it's only an opinion, then you either fail at communication or need to do more homework.

people these days make a career out of being offended by anything. e-prime just adds another layer of bullshit to every argument. now you can avoid the subject completely by saying "yeah but you didn't say IMHO."  it's a whole world of the kind of shit lawyers and theologians (the two biggest reasons for societal decay) love to debate, i.e. useless crap about what you REALLY mean when what you say is plain as day.

You're quite right, why should human speech be clear at all?

Dumbass.
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2007, 02:10:17 pm »
wtf is it with e-prime?

is it really supposed to enhance the accuracy and precision of your speech/writing? no, that is a lie. it is not supposed to enhance anything. it's just politically-correct "make sure you don't offend anybody" bullshit.

fuck that. if your opinion sucks, i'll say so. if you don't like it, then tell me my opinion sucks.

you'll be wrong but you'll feel better.

why should i waste half of my effort in saying something just to make sure you understand that i'm only expressing an opinion?  if you can't tell it's only an opinion, then you either fail at communication or need to do more homework.

people these days make a career out of being offended by anything. e-prime just adds another layer of bullshit to every argument. now you can avoid the subject completely by saying "yeah but you didn't say IMHO."  it's a whole world of the kind of shit lawyers and theologians (the two biggest reasons for societal decay) love to debate, i.e. useless crap about what you REALLY mean when what you say is plain as day.

You're quite right, why should human speech be clear at all?

Dumbass.

adults can have conversations without stopping every two minutes to remind each other they're just having a conversation.
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Hoopla!

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2007, 03:39:24 pm »
You ever witnessed adults having conversations?   :lulz:
“Soon all of us will have special names” — Professor Brian O’Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes" — Walt Whitman

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2007, 03:40:57 pm »
e' doesn't appear very useful for regular conversation. It seems most useful when discussing ideas, concepts, beliefs, theories etc... and then as a tool for the user (as much, if not more so than an audience). If we're chatting about the weather, or our favorite music... then (as Vex says) we don't need to remind each other that we're having a conversation. Of course, if thats all we ever chat about, then we have no need for e'... but then if that's all we ever chat about, we're likely rather boring.

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2007, 04:02:19 pm »
CLOUDS are not BORING.

they can look like unicorns, and that's magical.

E-PRIME cannot look like a unicorn.



i'm tired of this ridiculous argument. i should have thought out my actual opinion before deciding i knew what it was in the OP.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2007, 04:14:36 pm »
i should have thought out my actual opinion before deciding i knew what it was in the OP.

Why? What fun would that be?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: e-prime sucks and so do you.
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2007, 10:32:56 pm »
CLOUDS are not BORING.

they can look like unicorns, and that's magical.

E-PRIME cannot look like a unicorn.



i'm tired of this ridiculous argument. i should have thought out my actual opinion before deciding i knew what it was in the OP.

i dont think anybody knows exactly how the what behind that

but at least there isnt twice as many far as there was that time
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