everything in the book of the subgenius is true

[LHX]

you are entitled to whatever you need whenever you need it

but
the punishment is extreme and unpredictable when you take more than you need or dont use it properly



in hindsight - i can see how the notion of a all-knowing being was a easy sell throughout the centuries

its funny how when somebody commits a dastardly or sinister act - they always end up catching their just desserts in the end end

ALMOST AS THOUGH SOMEBODY WAS WATCHING


scales balance in the long run
but
when a snapshot is taken at any particular point in time - the scales can appear unbalanced

and sometimes - when a person is feeling pessimistic - they perceive the unbalanced scales as something static




they arent static
no matter how many sets of black clothing you own

you can even cut yourself if you want




yeah pain is a bitch no doubt

i havent yet heard a woman say that she enjoyed the feeling of giving birth
and tho i know some parents eventually hate their kids
it is commonly held that birth is a joy


fleeting pain
fleeting joy


whimsical barstools




when the electricity runs out
itll really suck at first

but after some thinning out and a period of adjustment - everything will be fine


how could it not be?



and after some time - im sure some clever minds will figure out a way to do it all over again


you have to do something to pass the time in eternity

[Lies]

you have to do something to pass the time in eternity

Holy shit that's exactly what I say when I discuss the meaning of life.

[Triple Zero]

its funny how when somebody commits a dastardly or sinister act - they always end up catching their just desserts in the end end

they do?

are you sure you're not confusing movie plots with what happens in real life?

because, IRL, i see no overall pattern in history where the dastardly villains end up getting what they deserve significantly more often than the "good guys" getting the same sort of things (which they might not have "deserved")

the thing about balance. i think balance is a very important driving force. but in no way something that is enforced upon us, as if someone was watching.

no the importantance of balance, is that it is something you can actively strive for, most "good things" in the world can be viewed from a certain angle as having achieved balance of some sort. so if you tune onto that channel, searching for balance is a "good thing". but there is no justice, there is no fairness, there is no automatic morality mechanism that applies and deals out balance to the righteous.

because this:

when a snapshot is taken at any particular point in time - the scales can appear unbalanced

holds true the other way as well (hey that makes it balanced, no?)

when a snapshot is taken at another particular point in time - the scales can appear balanced.

but

as you say, nothing is permanent. all composite phenomena are impermanent. all phenomena are emtpy and selfless.

but also as you say, you gotta do something with all that eternity we got lying about

[tyrannosaurus vex]

the laws of physics tend to achieve a kind of balance.

the laws of morality, even the plainly obvious common-sense type morality, do not achieve balance.

you seem to be confusing survival and adaptation with some cosmic Force acting on human society.  there is no force of nature that enforces any moral ideas or sees to moral balance.

[LHX]

it has nothing to do with morals


its the plain fact that nothing of any consequence can be eternally hidden


you do wrong today - you will catch it eventually

either by getting exposed
or
by being forced to commit too much time to covering your tracks or worrying about getting exposed

[Doktor Loki]

If it has nothing to do with morals, what do you mean by "you do wrong today..."?
Whats wrong?

[LHX]

you tell me

i would prolly start by saying that something is 'wrong' if i act without respect

what is respect?

consideration


what is the result of considering something?
prolly proper action


sometimes proper action is a gentle breeze
sometimes it is a hurricane



so
wrong is wrong


if you bring a gentle breeze when you actually needed to bring a hurricane
then you done fucked up


i might be paranoid
but if anybody brings up any hippy shit in this thread
there is a chance i wont be posting here for a long long time



it has nothing to do with morals and everything to do with intelligence

[Payne]

Heh.

You rarely post anyways these days X, we miss yuo!

What you're sayin is that doing wrong can cause you to think in a certain way that will eventually cause you to be repaid for doing wrong in the first place?

Kind of (but not exactly) like a guilty conscience?

I can buy into that certainly, I've done some badwrong things that eventually ended up biting me in the ass one way or another.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

it has nothing to do with morals


its the plain fact that nothing of any consequence can be eternally hidden


you do wrong today - you will catch it eventually

either by getting exposed
or
by being forced to commit too much time to covering your tracks or worrying about getting exposed

The Zodiac Killer comes to mind...

[LHX]

in frustration -

sometimes people have that notion that they are just gonna stomp around with impunity

"the world jerked me around - so im gonna be a jerk"

-- that really suggests nothing other than a lack of tolerance



exploitation
oppression
exhaustion
abuse
needless destruction

these type of decisons cannot be made


if you prop yourself up to a position thru means that make the position un-maintainable
you are gonna catch yours


if i tell a lie to you today
think about all the work that puts on me

and thats just a lie
if i shank you in the back because i wanted what you had
then i put all sorts of pressure on myself




now
if you can honestly identify and isolate that element which is really causing you trouble
and you seek to act upon that thing -
well
that seems like a different story all together

id be hard pressed to say that there is anything wrong with crushing the hand that is slapping you in the face



for some reason - that shakespeare joint 'macbeth' comes to mind
if i remember correctly
he killed somebody to get the crown
then he had to keep killing to make sure nobody found out

he got to be happy for about 5 minutes
but
in truth he brought nothing but grief on himself


in the end - wickedness (whatever you determine that to be) results in nothing but grief for the wrong doer


and like i said - it has nothing to do with morals

[AFK]

troof.  Maintenance can be a bitch.

[Triple Zero]

(this in response to LHXs before-last post, not his last post in the thread)

IMO you're looking at things a littlebit one-sidedly.

so you're saying that doing a "bad" thing will cause long-lasting side-effects that, because they're so long-lasting, will eventually come around and hit you in the back.

okay i can see that happening.

but let's look at "good" things, will they not cause long-lasting side-effects? that won't, because they're so long-lasting, will eventually come around and hit you in the back?

because, unless you're gonna define "bad" things as "those things with long-lasting side-effects that, because they're so long-lasting, will eventually come around and hit you in the back", i don't quite see a fundamental difference between them, except in a very limited scope (: limited with respect to the size of the round-trip they'll be making), namely that of the persons involved.

in fact, this is not even such a crazy notion. but you might not like the conclusion i'm drawing out of it.

a lot of people fear change, and thus might consider "those things with long-lasting side-effects that, because they're so long-lasting, will eventually come around and hit you in the back" as bad things, and the things that keep the situation stable and today the same as tomorrow with nothing to fear about coming around and hitting you in the back months or years later, as good things.

---

and again, in respect to your last post, you mention macbeth, and i don't mean this disrespectful or anything, but as i said before, your examples are from fictional stories. macbeth wasn't real. it's a highly moralizing story about the way people perceived the way the world ought to work (justice=devotion=piety=faith) back in those days.

---

i think you're right about one thing, that certain actions can have long-lasting results that invariably come around and turn on its causation. that way they become tangled loops. interfering with eachother, interference, feedback, self-similarity, very strange loops. this is important because that is life.
other actions just accomplish a simple thing and burn out like a rock falling into the sea. this is lifelessness (not death). it's probably also important because it provides a stable background for life to depend on.

what i disagree with, is attaching labels like good and bad/evil to these events. such labels are only applicable on a very abstract high-level and limited domain. step outside that domain and the labels/notions become meaningless. a couch becomes a collection of molecules instead of something to sit on.

or maybe i'm understanding you all wrong, and what you are saying is that is is wickedness, which will be defined by the fact that it'll result in nothing but (?) grief for the wrong doer?

[LHX]

maybe we are working off different models of 'good' and 'bad'


in the model im looking at - doing 'good' does not result in anything that can come back and get a person


nothing was pushed into a place where it wasnt supposed to be


its the difference between taking until there is none left
vs
taking what you need and allowing the reserve to replenish before you take again


which one of those two scenarios will come back at you?

[Triple Zero]

ok but what about scenarios where doing good will get back at you?

trying to think of an example here..

white lies?

sacrifice?

there was something you said a while ago about being a martyr .. ?

[LHX]

maybe martyrdom isnt actually doing good


what would the '90s have been like if Malcolm X had still been around