Employment is exploitation

[Cain]

Well, it's better to try and change things than to just complain about them, right?

If there's a problem, fix it.

Like I said, failed ideologies won't fix a fucking thing...in fact, it will only make things worse.

Why are you listening to some bearded retards from Russia, anyway?  How likely is it that they had the answer?  Judging from history, they were more like Scientologists.

Use your head.  Think up something new.

Goddamn it.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=462438;topic=14556.30;num_replies=42;sesc=1f2b0d827c56f4f8472f592561e9b0bb
Post reply

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

I am neither a Leninist or a Stalinist.

Trot!  Gramsci-ist!  Debord-ist!  Uh...Lukacs-sit!

[Messier Undertree]

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

Now for the bonus round:  Why?

The state.

[Messier Undertree]

In before UNNNNG.

[Messier Undertree]

Well, it's better to try and change things than to just complain about them, right?

If there's a problem, fix it.

Like I said, failed ideologies won't fix a fucking thing...in fact, it will only make things worse.

Why are you listening to some bearded retards from Russia, anyway?  How likely is it that they had the answer?  Judging from history, they were more like Scientologists.

Use your head.  Think up something new.

Goddamn it.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=462438;topic=14556.30;num_replies=42;sesc=1f2b0d827c56f4f8472f592561e9b0bb
Post reply

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

I am neither a Leninist or a Stalinist.

Trot!  Gramsci-ist!  Debord-ist!  Uh...Lukacs-sit!

lol

Anarcho-syndicalist.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that one thing that should be made perfectly clear is that an
employee is -NEVER- paid their full value.  If they were, the employer
would make no profit off of them, and that is the purpose of employing
people in the first place.

To put it VERY simply, employment is a form of exploitation.

I make handcrafted goods and sell them at a profit.  I reap the full
value of my employment as an artist, because it is self-employment.

So everyone should make knick knacks and we would live in a utopia.

Gotcha.

No, actually I didn't propose any solutions in that essay, I just outlined what I perceived to be a problem. You seem to be confusing my attempt to clarify and define the terms I used with a proposed solution to the problem.

The intended gist of the article is that the economy currently favors employers very heavily, and employees need something closer to fair and reasonable compensation based on their productivity.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh, not North Carolina, Oklahoma. And it's happening all over the place... totally crazy.

http://www.indiaresource.org/news/2003/4166.html

that's certainly fucked up, but it's not slavery.

That particular article should have been a good jumping-off point for people who are interested in reading more about it... one particular case was basically slavery. They paid the employees $2/hour, but coerced them into remaining onsite, housing them in the factory and not allowing them to leave the premises or have any contact with the outside world. Anyone who complained was told to keep their mouth shut and threatened. Anyway, that's a whole different topic.

Yep, that's slavery.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

Now for the bonus round:  Why?

The state.

WRONG.

Please try again.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

No, actually I didn't propose any solutions in that essay, I just outlined what I perceived to be a problem.

What, that companies have to make a profit to survive?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Anarcho-syndicalist.

All you need to know about Anarchism™ is that it was invented by the French.

[Messier Undertree]

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

Now for the bonus round:  Why?

The state.

WRONG.

Please try again.

Outside of the state and it's lackeys, I can't really see the problem.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

Now for the bonus round:  Why?

The state.

WRONG.

Please try again.

Outside of the state and it's lackeys, I can't really see the problem.

That's because you are looking at it wrong.

The state isn't the problem, it's a symptom.  We are - as primates - pack animals.  Take the government away, and a surrogate system will instantly appear.  In a week, you'll have government again.

So saying "if it wasn't for the state, we'd be free" is like saying "if it wasn't for gravity, I could rollerskate on the ceiling".

Come on, think this all the way through...Why has communism never worked?

[Messier Undertree]

I don't really cling to any one ideology.

I completely agree that the revolution in Eastern Europe failed.

Now for the bonus round:  Why?

The state.

WRONG.

Please try again.

Outside of the state and it's lackeys, I can't really see the problem.

That's because you are looking at it wrong.

The state isn't the problem, it's a symptom.  We are - as primates - pack animals.  Take the government away, and a surrogate system will instantly appear.  In a week, you'll have government again.

So saying "if it wasn't for the state, we'd be free" is like saying "if it wasn't for gravity, I could rollerskate on the ceiling".

Come on, think this all the way through...Why has communism never worked?

The lack of a centralised state doesn't amount to a war of all against all IMO.

And as for your question, is it because people are inherently stupid?

Because the way I see it, they're only like that due to a lack of education.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The lack of a centralised state doesn't amount to a war of all against all IMO.

And as for your question, is it because people are inherently stupid?

Because the way I see it, they're only like that due to a lack of education.

1.  Who said it did?  I didn't say that.  I just said lack of a centralised state is impossible.

2.  Nope.  It's because they are primates and not ants.

3.  HAW HAW!  Some of the dumbest people I know are stuffed full of useless education.  A few of them, and some of the dumbest, are communists.

[Nast]

While I agree with you in part, a starving child isn't going to get out of his situation through a revolution inside himself.

True. Really, all this philosophizing is just to make ourselves feel better.
If you really want to help, you're going to actually help the suffering person one on one. There's no one solution for everybody, and I know people don't care enough to really dedicate themselves that much.
But the least we can do is realize that all this suffering is our fault as silly humans, and get over this "us against them" mentality.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

and get over this "us against them" mentality.

Why?