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ATTN: FSM SCUMBAGS

Started by tyrannosaurus vex, December 26, 2007, 11:32:12 PM

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tyrannosaurus vex

Back to OP: the pastafarians get results, and mostly through spamming email inboxes and news media comment boards.

but i guess if we can't hold a million-man march (which the Media would ignore anyway, mind you), we're powerless.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Cain

I fail to see how any other force multipliers, bar the media, are going to tilt the balance in any sense in your favour.  This grouping is exceptionally small.  Ideally, you would want roughly Bostonian levels of Discordians in most major cities posting here, and the only way that is going to happen is if you go out recruiting.  Otherwise, there is no point.

Trust me, my group are dispersed during the summer, I know what I am talking about.

Cramulus

I think this "project" would be easier to discuss if we had a concrete target or goal. This is in danger of getting talked to death on the floor because we're disagreeing not about intent, but about methodology. Right? Which doesn't mean much anyway unless we have a plan. I'm sensing that a lot of you are restless and want to get something done. This is the same sort of energy which produced the BIP metaphor, and we should follow it.

I think 20-some odd operatives are capable of a fuckton ...if they're coordinated.


Just to toss a silly jake idea out there:
(an attempt to threadjack towards productivity)
(but also to illustrate how 20-some odd netgoons can make a difference)

TGRR mentioned pranking the election cycle.

The Ron Paul followers are rabid. They're all over the web. And they respond IN FORCE and COORDINATION to nearly any mention of Ron Paul's name.


We don't have the manpower to blanket the web with propaganda, but we sure as hell have the manpower to pollute one or two of the more important information venues.


Imagine a significant push to identify Ron Paul as a Freemason (or something to that effect). We generate images and news and gossip which talks about his Masonic participation.

IRL calls or e-mails can be made to campaign headquarters and news outlets. We pick a big name blogger and swarm on him, causing him to mention Ron Paul = Freemason in some way. Work towards these ends is totally possible over the net or IRL.

This causes the Ron-Paulites to launch an equally large "RON PAUL IS NOT A FREEMASON" campaign, which is an awfully funny thing to spend manpower on.




Let's not become these four guys in this clip from Waking Life:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtuYWyjk4ZI  :p

Cain

Quote from: vexati0n on December 29, 2007, 05:01:28 PM
Back to OP: the pastafarians get results, and mostly through spamming email inboxes and news media comment boards.

but i guess if we can't hold a million-man march (which the Media would ignore anyway, mind you), we're powerless.

Thats a nice strawman, did you pick it up from Fox News?  (thats called poisoning the well, and its a much sneakier logical fallacy, fuckstick).

Now, try dealing with the actual content of my posts, instead of what you want me to say, or otherwise fuck off.

Cain

Sorry Cram, your plan involves using the internet as something more than a glorified telephone service and must be disallowed.

Cramulus

jesus christ
take a deeeeep breath

annnnnd

exhale




that goes for all of you


Cain

Not me. 

I told people if they say they're going to be in, then they have to be in.

And the next day, people start backing out.

Whats more, I'm automatically frozen out of the process.  Nothing personal like, of course.  Well, apart from making me waste my time and get my hopes up before changing the conditions.

Why should I feel the need to be nice?

Cramulus

How are you frozen out of the process? We're all still discussing this.

I think you made a great post the other day, and I would consider that "1st Iteration". People reacted to it. From these reactions we should ultimately arrive at a second iteration which is more pleasing to all of our goals/capabilities than the first iteration. These things tend to be in the 3rd or 4th iteration (or more) by the time we're all comfortable.

But it's never gonna get past first iteration unless we're all flexible and receptive.

You should feel the need to be nice because although we disagree, we're on the same team. Namecalling starts to sound like bruised ego talk and is completely counterproductive.

tyrannosaurus vex

My terms were pretty clearly laid out in the initial discussion, and I'm not changing them now. I've addressed your concerns and you ignore me, so all I have left is "poisoning the well."

What I'm thinking of is something like a merger of HIMEOBS and AWS, where at least the idea of IRL results isn't scoffed at and dismissed out of hand before anything ever happens.

The MEDIA is not something you can manipulate with numbers, unless you have ENORMOUS numbers. The MEDIA has its own agenda and it will not report on things it deems threatening to that agenda. It doesn't matter if you're 25 yahoos from the Internet or 25,000 pissed off protesters in front of the White House. The Meda will ignore who it wants to ignore.

So, Cain, your contention that we "need" the Media, and in order to have it we "need" huge numbers of members, is false. With the Internet we can be the media. Just because it isn't easy doesn't mean a damn thing. Nobody's trying to freeze you out, it's just that not everyone is as quick to give up on real results.

imho, Lulz can be had in a much larger way if you can make an actual difference.

And yes -- "making a difference" is always the phrase used by bullshit revolutionaries and pipe-dreamers and everyone else. But we are cheating ourselves by dismissing the idea out of hand all the time. Small numbers of people have effected real change in the past. There is no reason why we should think it's impossible today, except as an excuse to pretend to hate the way things are while being too comfortable to actually care.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Cain

Yeah, well maybe when you can decide whether the internet is going to be a field of operations or a "resource and communication center" I'll actually take your nitpicking seriously.  You don't even know what you yourselves are talking about.

tyrannosaurus vex

It can be both, Cain. A resource center in that we can gain recruits and, if we try hard enough, maybe finances. A field of operations in that we can concentrate our operations on the zones of the Internet that interface with people's real lives.

IRL operations would be distributing fliers and other nonsense. A canopy group that is capable of directing and coordinating both online and IRL missions for the purpose of accomplishing defined objectives would be a huge benefit to us, i think.

And it isn't like it's going to just happen overnight, like anything you have to grow it. It's small now and will be until it isn't anymore.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Cain

Quote from: Professor Cramulus on December 29, 2007, 05:27:27 PM
How are you frozen out of the process? We're all still discussing this.

I think you made a great post the other day, and I would consider that "1st Iteration". People reacted to it. From these reactions we should ultimately arrive at a second iteration which is more pleasing to all of our goals/capabilities than the first iteration. These things tend to be in the 3rd or 4th iteration (or more) by the time we're all comfortable.

But it's never gonna get past first iteration unless we're all flexible and receptive.

You should feel the need to be nice because although we disagree, we're on the same team. Namecalling starts to sound like bruised ego talk and is completely counterproductive.

And what exactly am I going to do?  Waste more time providing ideas that are going to be ignored? 

Well apparently it wasn't great enough, because now people think its stupid.

I'm not on anyone's team, as has been made abundantly clear in this thread.  I'm on the subs bench, being told to come up with ideas which are only going to get ignored anyway.

Cain

Quote from: vexati0n on December 29, 2007, 05:47:36 PM
It can be both, Cain. A resource center in that we can gain recruits and, if we try hard enough, maybe finances. A field of operations in that we can concentrate our operations on the zones of the Internet that interface with people's real lives.

IRL operations would be distributing fliers and other nonsense. A canopy group that is capable of directing and coordinating both online and IRL missions for the purpose of accomplishing defined objectives would be a huge benefit to us, i think.

And it isn't like it's going to just happen overnight, like anything you have to grow it. It's small now and will be until it isn't anymore.

And how are you going to accomplish any of your objectives with 25 people?

Oh wait, you aren't?

Isn't that what I've been saying for the last PAGE AND A HALF?

tyrannosaurus vex

so we start recruiting. we just need to agree on a general direction to take this thing.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Cain

#89
So now we have an explicit and coherent plan for action being replaced by an incoherent and undeveloped one.  Fantastic.