ATTN: FSM SCUMBAGS

[ybom]

Let's not forget to use one of the biggest benefits of being discordian when creating all of this; Randomness! I'd hate to burn bridges because we went in underestimating things such as this.

Is there an easy way to clean up the messes we make?

[Cainad (dec.)]

Discordian example:  we have the emails of thousands of people who were interested enough in Discordianism to sign up to PD.com.  Perhaps we should utilize them?  Since few Discordians have "died" or "got lost" in our previous conflicts, this is not an issue we have had to explore much.  However, it does tie into recruitment, which I will touch on again at the end of this article.

I think this may be a resource worth exploiting. Many people may create an account and nose around a bit, but few will persist and become active members. Lurkers, however, may be more likely to become a legitimate Fourth Ring (or even New Wave Ring) if the network pokes back when they create an account. Even if we continue to treat them like the n00bs they are, interest will undoubtedly be sparked if we put the idea into their heads that "Yeah, this is an active group that is interested in your involvement."

Information security

Further improvements could include an agreed on code system, which would allow for public forums to act as message carriers without direct implication, as well as use of emails and specially created hidden forums to achieve goals.

It's probably repost, but for the benefit of those interested: http://www.und.nodak.edu/org/crypto/crypto/lanaki.crypt.class/lessons/

Let's not forget to use one of the biggest benefits of being discordian when creating all of this; Randomness! I'd hate to burn bridges because we went in underestimating things such as this.

Is there an easy way to clean up the messes we make?

Good point, actually. Half the point of Discordianism is that we don't get our panties in a twist when unforeseen variables screw around with plans.

[ybom]

Good point, actually. Half the point of Discordianism is that we don't get our panties in a twist when unforeseen variables screw around with plans.

You mean like "Ohw Mhy Gawd! Britttannnieee Cut Her Hayr!!!"? Is there an article or something you can provide that touches this subject? (and personally I think she had to cut her hair due to lice lawls)

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Okay. I just spent the last 30 minutes reading all of that. Before I re-read for clarity, I'll venture a synopsis of your suggested "next stage"-- please correct / clarify if I'm missing / misreading anything.

We will "organize" into different cells. These cells will exist in various places on the net as well as IRL. For example at the moment I'm a node in a cell of five or so Discordians in the Yonkers, New York area AND a node in the PD Cell. (and AWS too!)

After these cells are created (I imagine many of them already exist), they must be networked. This is a decentralized network, rather than a hierarchy. This is done by having members join more than one cell at once, and not having any one leader in particular.

The purpose of this structure is to
-maximize each cell's access to resources - the PD cell can't put up flyers, but the Yonkers cabal can. The Yonkers cabal has limited ability to troll websites (because it only has two internet trolls), but the PD cabal can. Because I'm a member of both cells, I can farm work from one group to the other
-defend each cell from strikes - with no "top level", we can't be decapitated.

Recruiting:

We need to form a larger "fourth ring" - Discordians who are hip to the cause but may not have dedicated themselves to it yet. They are our recruiting field for the New Wave ring.

The best way to do this, if I read you correctly, is to create cells which have various appeals to various types of Discordians. We can flagship a silly discordian myspace group, for example, and make sure that we litter it with information about the other cells and the Big Picture.





Vex and I were talking recently about The Machine and how we might utilize its structure for our own machinations. (excuse the pun) His notion was that once you've created a self-propelling structure, it takes very little effort to maintain it. Sort of like how people continue to create The Machine not because they're actively trying to, but because participating in the Machine further reifies its existence.

Vex's PDF (which he posted on the other page) was pointing at a similar idea, though he described a centralized / hierarchical network. (correct me if I'm wrong Vex) He suggested that we create an OMF engine: People pick roles / jobs within this cabal, and if they stop doing it their job, the person above them replaces them or the people below them elect someone else. (now that DOES sound like The Machine^TM, no?)



I'm gonna venture a guess, Cain, that your plan involves infiltrating / usurping other Discordian cells. This is not trolling, but rather giving our nodes higher importance within their networks, and thus bending them to our nefarious and no doubt evil will.



am I more or less on target?

It is more centralized than what Cain is describing. Admittedly, I have not done the amount of research Cain has done, but the model I'm working on calls for a skeleton crew of administration officers, mainly to give the organization a direction.

The idea is that cabals will have total autonomy to select targets and carry out their own missions, but go through an administrative body (composed of representatives from other cabals and 3 organization-wide officers) when they want an organization-wide strike. This reduces the clamor of everyone demanding the organization be used as their own personal army all the time and allows for there to be a deliberate direction for the organization to move in.

Elections aren't necessarily the best way to select the officers, it's just I hadn't thought up a better way in my brainstorming. Anyway, I think a network of cabals capable of individual and concerted movement would in some ways give us the benefits of both the Netwar model and the traditional hierarchical systems, without resorting to outright beaurocracy.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Okay. I just spent the last 30 minutes reading all of that. Before I re-read for clarity, I'll venture a synopsis of your suggested "next stage"-- please correct / clarify if I'm missing / misreading anything.

We will "organize" into different cells. These cells will exist in various places on the net as well as IRL. For example at the moment I'm a node in a cell of five or so Discordians in the Yonkers, New York area AND a node in the PD Cell. (and AWS too!)

After these cells are created (I imagine many of them already exist), they must be networked. This is a decentralized network, rather than a hierarchy. This is done by having members join more than one cell at once, and not having any one leader in particular.

The purpose of this structure is to
-maximize each cell's access to resources - the PD cell can't put up flyers, but the Yonkers cabal can. The Yonkers cabal has limited ability to troll websites (because it only has two internet trolls), but the PD cabal can. Because I'm a member of both cells, I can farm work from one group to the other
-defend each cell from strikes - with no "top level", we can't be decapitated.

Recruiting:

We need to form a larger "fourth ring" - Discordians who are hip to the cause but may not have dedicated themselves to it yet. They are our recruiting field for the New Wave ring.

The best way to do this, if I read you correctly, is to create cells which have various appeals to various types of Discordians. We can flagship a silly discordian myspace group, for example, and make sure that we litter it with information about the other cells and the Big Picture.





Vex and I were talking recently about The Machine and how we might utilize its structure for our own machinations. (excuse the pun) His notion was that once you've created a self-propelling structure, it takes very little effort to maintain it. Sort of like how people continue to create The Machine not because they're actively trying to, but because participating in the Machine further reifies its existence.

Vex's PDF (which he posted on the other page) was pointing at a similar idea, though he described a centralized / hierarchical network. (correct me if I'm wrong Vex) He suggested that we create an OMF engine: People pick roles / jobs within this cabal, and if they stop doing it their job, the person above them replaces them or the people below them elect someone else. (now that DOES sound like The Machine^TM, no?)



I'm gonna venture a guess, Cain, that your plan involves infiltrating / usurping other Discordian cells. This is not trolling, but rather giving our nodes higher importance within their networks, and thus bending them to our nefarious and no doubt evil will.



am I more or less on target?

It is more centralized than what Cain is describing. Admittedly, I have not done the amount of research Cain has done, but the model I'm working on calls for a skeleton crew of administration officers, mainly to give the organization a direction.

The idea is that cabals will have total autonomy to select targets and carry out their own missions, but go through an administrative body (composed of representatives from other cabals and 3 organization-wide officers) when they want an organization-wide strike. This reduces the clamor of everyone demanding the organization be used as their own personal army all the time and allows for there to be a deliberate direction for the organization to move in.

Elections aren't necessarily the best way to select the officers, it's just I hadn't thought up a better way in my brainstorming. Anyway, I think a network of cabals capable of individual and concerted movement would in some ways give us the benefits of both the Netwar model and the traditional hierarchical systems, without resorting to outright beaurocracy.

This may be a good place for some 'automation' built in to reduce human dependence but propagate OM's etc from smaller cabals in outer rings to the larger resources in the inner rings. One concern we might have with complete decentralization could be a waste of resources... if the Great Googlie Mooglie Cabal (a second ring?) calls for an attack that is dealing with some personal grudge rather than any sort of useful target in the usual sense, could this distort resources that might otherwise be engaged in something more useful? How does Bin Laden keep his boys from spending $1,000,000 on a target that has a value of $100?

Also, it seems like we'll need more propaganda that gets specific about ideology or goals (which seems to be the binding force of a network).... philosophical propaganda. Maybe something that goes beyond our current level of "Wake up, you're in prison" to "Let's use fog horns on all these sleeping schmucks"? Also, perhaps now is a good time to start looking for memes that might guide the actions of independent cabals?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Another problem with complete decentralization is that without a really strong, almost religiously stagnant culture, a completely decentralized network will never agree on enough to accomplish anything beyond random strikes at usually unrelated targets. Especially among a group as fractious as Discordians, if you want to have long-term goals or purposely direct the maturation of the network, you have to provide the thing with a brain and some level of self-awareness.

A common culture will tend to make things run a little smoother from a bureaucratic standpoint, but can lead to castrating the group's effectiveness as a Discordian network Establishing a common culture is good for recruitment and providing nodes with common ground, but too much of it will turn into dogmatism because people are intellectually lazy if you let them be.

[Cain]

Thats why flatness is preferable, but total flateness is what we are not aiming for.

While I agree PD.com should act as a basic nervous system for the network as a whole, due to experience, interconnectedness, prominence etc the larger amounts of autonomy given to the various cells the better.

I think PD.com should create cells that appeal to various sorts of Discordians, or else approach pre-existing sites with the above model and try to get them to buy into it (marketing will be needed, in that case).  There is also the off-chance of integrating Discordian-esque types as well (the Colboards, dissident Pagans, the members of FSM who don't make me want to stab my own eye out, some Subgenii etc).  Our nodes will essentially act as primary information channels between these cells and our central hub at PD.com.  The hope would be, however, to cultivate nodes there and help make those cells connect directly with other cells as well.  Of course, such a process would take several months, assuming we parallel-process on this.

Its a matter of doing the right recruiting from the start, I think.  So long as the cells are made up of the right sort of people, who understand what we are trying to achieve, then less direction from a central authority or council will be needed.  I envision PD.com's role rather similar to that of C2 Cognition model:  we promote, we try to enhance linkages between cells, we produce ideas and propaganda and we mediate disputes and we act as a major conduit for information flow - but we're not holding a majority of this information flow, at least not once we have a working cell structure up and running.

Also, personal army requests should be considered, unless they become the majority of operations, in which case some ground rules concerning them may have to be established.  Personal armies are a great way of getting a name out and generating interest.  Sure, its self-serving interest, but it appeals to a crowd our normal rhetoric may not - and once they are involved we may be able to draw them in deeper.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Thats why flatness is preferable, but total flateness is what we are not aiming for.

While I agree PD.com should act as a basic nervous system for the network as a whole, due to experience, interconnectedness, prominence etc the larger amounts of autonomy given to the various cells the better.

I think PD.com should create cells that appeal to various sorts of Discordians, or else approach pre-existing sites with the above model and try to get them to buy into it (marketing will be needed, in that case).  There is also the off-chance of integrating Discordian-esque types as well (the Colboards, dissident Pagans, the members of FSM who don't make me want to stab my own eye out, some Subgenii etc).  Our nodes will essentially act as primary information channels between these cells and our central hub at PD.com.  The hope would be, however, to cultivate nodes there and help make those cells connect directly with other cells as well.  Of course, such a process would take several months, assuming we parallel-process on this.

Its a matter of doing the right recruiting from the start, I think.  So long as the cells are made up of the right sort of people, who understand what we are trying to achieve, then less direction from a central authority or council will be needed.  I envision PD.com's role rather similar to that of C2 Cognition model:  we promote, we try to enhance linkages between cells, we produce ideas and propaganda and we mediate disputes and we act as a major conduit for information flow - but we're not holding a majority of this information flow, at least not once we have a working cell structure up and running.

Also, personal army requests should be considered, unless they become the majority of operations, in which case some ground rules concerning them may have to be established.  Personal armies are a great way of getting a name out and generating interest.  Sure, its self-serving interest, but it appeals to a crowd our normal rhetoric may not - and once they are involved we may be able to draw them in deeper.

So then manifestos and memes peppered liberally as part of the initial recruitment plan should help with finding cell founders that will share similar goals. I guess we should start making notes of sites/gathering places that would make good "fourth ring" material... Maybe we could talk to Prince MuChao over at 23AE, I could play 4th circle over at Maybe Logic and poke at potential members there... there are several Live Journal groups I can connect to, Sjaantze has several MySpace Discordian friends (and as far as I know, they have no connection between her and here).

That means that we have the following:

St Syn's gang over at POEE - 2nd circle?
EB&G - 2nd circle
23AE - 4th circle
LJ - 4th circle
MySpace - 4th Circle
Facebook - 4th circle
IRL Cabals - 3rd or 4th circle

?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

My ego is insisting that we create a new base of operations somewhere other than PD, though.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

My ego is insisting that we create a new base of operations somewhere other than PD, though.

Not necessarily a bad idea... PD.com is large and full of neon, perhaps a center hub for such activity might want to be lower key?

Many of us have various domains/hosting already.

[Cramulus]

So uhhhhh once we've all mastered these theories of warfare

and got all of these networks in place

and our legion is trained to engage in war (?) against another network



.....what exactly are we doing again?




have we agreed on any goals or tasks? I don't mean to be a fly in the ointment, but I'm starting to get kind of jaded talking about how we're gonna assemble a huge Discordian network. (Again, we 'revolutionaries' apparently have short attention spans. )

[LMNO]

I believe "fucking up the elections/political process" was being kicked around.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

So uhhhhh once we've all mastered these theories of warfare

and got all of these networks in place

and our legion is trained to engage in war (?) against another network



.....what exactly are we doing again?




have we agreed on any goals or tasks? I don't mean to be a fly in the ointment, but I'm starting to get kind of jaded talking about how we're gonna assemble a huge Discordian network. (Again, we 'revolutionaries' apparently have short attention spans. )

I thought we would organize online operations similar to what HIMEOBS might do, if it existed, except selecting targets in a deliberate manner so as to produce a larger, specified goal.

In addition to that, we would recognize that every person in this network has a physical body (hopefully) and use that fact to gain IRL recruits as well as plan/carry out IRL missions that coincide with online operations.

Ultimately it would be cool to use the network to pool real resources: money, goods, services, etc.

[Cramulus]

Oh yeah... elections... here are some possible foci

-raise public awareness of the problems with the two party system
-make up fake issues and create buzz surrounding them in hopes that candidates will address them seriously
-the Discordian society supports Grover Cleveland


you'll have to excuse me I'm sick as a dog today and brain is not braining properly

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So uhhhhh once we've all mastered these theories of warfare

and got all of these networks in place

and our legion is trained to engage in war (?) against another network



.....what exactly are we doing again?




have we agreed on any goals or tasks? I don't mean to be a fly in the ointment, but I'm starting to get kind of jaded talking about how we're gonna assemble a huge Discordian network. (Again, we 'revolutionaries' apparently have short attention spans. )

ROFL TROOF Prof!

Well, here's my thought. Our first goal should be successfully putting a group of Discordians together in some semblance of apparent order, for the sake of a big game of disorder. That alone would be enough to make us Mystical Discordian Heroes and we could spend the rest of our lives traveling around the lecture circuit and writing books on "How I got Discordians to all act together for five minutes".

Our second goal should be training the group, Cain has already started with essays of netwar. What I envision is a series of posts/discussions etc and a few planned raids on unsuspecting forums/networks. I think this will let us see the potency of what we're working with, and if successful (like many of our past forays) it may well keep the Discordians interested for more than 5 minutes.

Let's say this process should take no more than the next month. During that time we should build solid projects for the graduates . Both virtual and IRL., Virtual attacks to keep them excited and interested and a bit of immediate gratification (as well as a bit of chaos where needed)... IRL stuff to further recruit in meatspace as well as see how well we can pull off something IRL.

We have to build the Machine and test the Machine before we'll know how useful it actually is. We don't have a strong dogma to hold us together, we don't have a coherent view of The Enemy, these things may limit our ability to pull something like this off...

Of course, we could, through judicious use of propaganda, promote the lack of dogma and a coherent enemy as a very Discordian agenda, maybe we could play it as a strength rather than a weakness... I'll have to think more about that.

Anyway, that's what I see as goals. Build the Machine, Test the Machine, Use the Machine.