Does the BIP actually change who we *are*?

[Cainad (dec.)]

Yeah, edumacating yourself on common drugs (or whatever you're taking, even if it isn't common) is a good idea too.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The whole "chemical imbalance" thing is ridiculous.

WZRFE, it sounds like you have a bit of a chemical imbalance... 

The chemical is called "Seratonin", jackass.

WHY DON'T ANY OF THE SMILEYS WORK?

[Triple Zero]

i liked watching the Trap, it was interesting, but don't tell me you took the stuff they said about psychiatry serious?

those "numbers" tests they speak about are DSM-IV and a bunch of others, ZOMG ONOZ ITS NUMBERS THAT MEANS WE'RE ALL ROBOTS NOW

i thought their conclusion was a bit over the top. i've done these tests, i score normal on all accounts except for some attention deficit disorder and very slight OCD (it was pretty obvious where that last one come from btw, there were a few questions about looking for patterns in things, and yeah i do that)

anyway, i probably don't really have "regular" ADD, seeing as the medicines don't work for me .. i do have something else, but nobody seems to be able to tell me what it is--but enough about me.

the point is, ADD and ADHD is on the physical level represented by a slight deformity in some neural receptor, causing the brain to react less to a certain neurotransmitter (i forgot which, i think it was norepinephrine or noradrenaline). so in other words, it *is* real.

now, and i'm not entirely sure if this is correct, but afaik, Dexamphetamine stimulates the production of this neurotransmitter, and Ritalin (methylfenidate) inhibits the reuptake of it (kind of like an SSRI does for serotonine).

add to that, i know several people with ADHD, and they really do get more "relaxed" or "calm" when taking dex or ritalin. however, when i take it myself or give it to a friend who does not have ADHD, they report a sort of "buzz" similar to caffeine or energy drinks. seeing these two definite different outcomes, i'm pretty convinced there's a real difference and it's not just imagined or invented.

(hence my disappointment, after taking ritalin for a couple of weeks, making me feel mostly stressed and anxious, i asked some ADHDers, "how long till you began to notice any positive effect from ritalin?" -- "oh, usually after about 30 minutes or so", yeah i quit that afternoon. )

the more important point to talk about, IMO, is this.

according to what i've heard, people with ADD and ADHD have existed throughout history, there are numerous stories about people displaying ADHD-like behaviour.
so it would seem that the real recent development is that living with ADHD seems to be more difficult in the current age. i'm thinking information overload, that kind of stuff. i think this is an interesting topic, what do you guys think about it?

[LMNO]

Well, it's good to know y'all have something in common with Scientologists...

[Triple Zero]

Well, it's good to know y'all have something in common with Scientologists...

y'all?

you mean the hivemind that is this board?

[LMNO]

I meant the people posting in this thread about braindrugs.

[AFK]

Remember, keep your brain-drugs locked up so the pill-junkies don't get their hands on them.

They are a popular drug of choice amongst high-school students. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

i liked watching the Trap, it was interesting, but don't tell me you took the stuff they said about psychiatry serious?

those "numbers" tests they speak about are DSM-IV and a bunch of others, ZOMG ONOZ ITS NUMBERS THAT MEANS WE'RE ALL ROBOTS NOW

i thought their conclusion was a bit over the top. i've done these tests, i score normal on all accounts except for some attention deficit disorder and very slight OCD (it was pretty obvious where that last one come from btw, there were a few questions about looking for patterns in things, and yeah i do that)

anyway, i probably don't really have "regular" ADD, seeing as the medicines don't work for me .. i do have something else, but nobody seems to be able to tell me what it is--but enough about me.

the point is, ADD and ADHD is on the physical level represented by a slight deformity in some neural receptor, causing the brain to react less to a certain neurotransmitter (i forgot which, i think it was norepinephrine or noradrenaline). so in other words, it *is* real.

now, and i'm not entirely sure if this is correct, but afaik, Dexamphetamine stimulates the production of this neurotransmitter, and Ritalin (methylfenidate) inhibits the reuptake of it (kind of like an SSRI does for serotonine).

add to that, i know several people with ADHD, and they really do get more "relaxed" or "calm" when taking dex or ritalin. however, when i take it myself or give it to a friend who does not have ADHD, they report a sort of "buzz" similar to caffeine or energy drinks. seeing these two definite different outcomes, i'm pretty convinced there's a real difference and it's not just imagined or invented.

(hence my disappointment, after taking ritalin for a couple of weeks, making me feel mostly stressed and anxious, i asked some ADHDers, "how long till you began to notice any positive effect from ritalin?" -- "oh, usually after about 30 minutes or so", yeah i quit that afternoon. )

the more important point to talk about, IMO, is this.

according to what i've heard, people with ADD and ADHD have existed throughout history, there are numerous stories about people displaying ADHD-like behaviour.
so it would seem that the real recent development is that living with ADHD seems to be more difficult in the current age. i'm thinking information overload, that kind of stuff. i think this is an interesting topic, what do you guys think about it?

I wasn't aware researchers had made that much progress on pinpointing the cause of ADHD... cool to know. Your "survival" point seems valid, because I initially went on Ritalin because I was having a hard time not wandering into traffic... I literally couldn't pay enough attention to my surroundings to keep me out of trouble. Worked like a charm. Mostly since early adulthood I've structured my life so that I don't need Ritalin, but if I'm going to be in a situation where it will be helpful I'll take it.

I'm hardly an opponent of taking "normalizing" drugs but I do think that they're over prescribed, often with very little screening, and the "chemical imbalance" phrase is thrown out there to cover just about EVERYTHING that people don't actually understand the mechanism of.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

BTW, what is "The Trap"?

[Triple Zero]

I wasn't aware researchers had made that much progress on pinpointing the cause of ADHD... cool to know.

disclaimer, this is a condensed version of what i got from ADHD from various sources, among which a psychiatrist, i'm not entirely certain about the accuracy of my reproduction and whether it might have been a "dumbed down" story, but it sounds plausible enough.

and the "chemical imbalance" phrase is thrown out there to cover just about EVERYTHING that people don't actually understand the mechanism of.

well, one thing i also heard, is that most of those medicines don't do just exactly what they are said to do, but also a whole bunch of other things, in lesser amounts. so, an SSRI doesn't just inhibit the reuptake of serotonine, but also has an lesser effect on other neurotransmitters, and a specific SSRI doesn't just affect a certain part of the brain, but also other parts in lesser amounts (... at least i think so) -- so in short, "they" (doctors etc) don't exactly know how it all works either, but they do try their best job at it (at least, the good ones).

[BootyBay]

Lol - the idea is still taking drugs to cope.  Only it's socially acceptable (unlike alcoholism or, soon, cigarette smoking).  Brain "diseases" like ADHD or even schizophrenia are not detected using a physical test (like an MRI) but an evaluation of a person's behavior (in fact, autopsies of schizophrenics for a hundred years or more revealed absolutely no abnormalities whatsoever, and only recently have such abnormalities been claimed to exist after *one* study of cadavers of people who took antipsychotic drugs their whole lives showed shrinking in the frontal lobes, which is a known side-effect of antipsychotics.. hmmm.. coincidence? I think not).  Therefore, the diagnosis is on a social level.  Your behavior is diseased because it's disruptive and you aren't productive enough in society at large (I'm not addressing anyone in particular, and I'm not saying the behaviors don't exist because they clearly do).  It has nothing to do with biology, and everything to do with control.
I can't say if the Trap was accurate with the whole "numbers diagnosing people" thing, but it is true that numerous "diagnose yourself" tests are floating around on the net, and it is true that drug companies are the ones pressing hardest for the "chemical imbalance" theory.

[Requia ☣]

Schitzophrenia does show up on an MRI, at least in identical twin studies where one twin has it but not the other.

Source is National Geographic, sometime in the 90s.

[hunter s.durden]

Schitzophrenia does show up on an MRI, at least in identical twin studies where one twin has it but not the other.

Source is National Geographic, sometime in the 90s.

[citation needed] Better one anyway. Got a link?

I've not seen any such thing. As far as I know it, the biggest mystery is the fact that schizophrenics have no abnormalities in any tests, even with twins.

[Cain]

Actually, according to the British Journal of Psychiatry paper Brain morphology in antipsychotic-naïve schizophrenia: a study of multiple brain structures, schizophrenics with no history of taking antipsychotics have also shown differences in brain structure.  The drugs of course will create additional changes, but there are pre-existing ones.

Additionally, according to the Journal of Clinical Psychology there are functional differences in how brain activity works in the frontal lobes, hippocampus and temporal lobes of those suffering from cognitive problems associated with schizophrenia, however the precise nature of the relationship is unknown (its causative and correlative relations to the diagnosis).  Also, increased dopamine levels among neural pathway in the mid-brain are linked to schizophrenia.  There are also abnormally low levels of glutamate receptors, according to a paper researched for Pharmacology and Therapeutics.  This can also impact on dopamine production, and the introduction of glutamergic drugs to schizophrenic patients has shown some success in treating the delusions, hallucinaions and inchorency of thought, according to the Schizophrenia Research Journal.

Oh, and in case anyone wondered, I checked the journals themselves and they are all peer-reviewed.

[Triple Zero]

(btw, the image in that motivational poster is not an MRI scan of the head, but a projection of the cosmic background radiation in teh univarse)