Author Topic: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.  (Read 5913 times)

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2012, 12:08:29 am »
Statement from the hospital says she "died peacefully".

Apparently they have a different definition of "peaceful" to what I do.
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 12:37:01 am »
Statement from the hospital says she "died peacefully".

Apparently they have a different definition of "peaceful" to what I do.

I hope it means, "Died under the influence of power painkillers, antidepressants, and anything else to give her artificial happiness."

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 01:12:09 am »
How are the Naxalite areas for womens rights?  If you know them in any detail, that is.  I would imagine the Maoists would in theory be all for equal rights, but theory is frequently compromised when working with the local culture, especially when one is aiming for a rural insurgency.  I had friends who said the Maoist areas were very clean and safe, but this was nearly a decade ago now, so lots has changed in India.

You know, I'm not sure about their stance on women's rights.  First of all, I've never had the sense of a central Naxalite organization, but the Indian newspapers I've read typically just report on another dozen police killed in Naxalite ambush and things like that, and don't really go into details about the issue.  (The police don't seem to be able to get a handle on the Naxalites at all; last I heard, the government was mulling over sending in regular army troops, because that's working so well in Jammu and Kashmir  :roll:)  At least some of the Naxalite groups have essentially degenerated into gangs who abuse and extort the villagers they're supposed to be "liberating." 

I've been stuck deep in dissertation writing for a while now, so I haven't been able to get to it, but I want to read Red Sun by Sudeep Chakravarti - I gather he's a reporter who's spent quite a bit of time with the Maoists in Naxalite-affected areas.  I can't say how good or accurate it is, but it's the only in-depth account that I can think of off the top of my head.

I've never been to the eastern half of India, so I can't say, but my wife tells me that men from Bihar have a reputation of being thugs - not in the Kali-worshiping sense, but just goons - and Bihar generally as being a land of criminals, but as I say, that's just the reputation, I don't know how much truth there is to it.

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 01:19:58 am »
I used to interact with a young woman from Mumbai, as Bombay is called now, online.  I think we were both looking for someone outside our own culture to interact with so we could feel worldly, or something like that.  In any case she said that the streets and public transit are not at all safe for women there.  She has to be very careful not to make eye contact, as it is taken as an invitation to rape, and random groping of women on busses is not uncommon at all.  Apparently the women usually do not react, as reacting can provoke worse.

This is purely anecdotal, and based on what I was told by a young woman who was decidedly dramatic, so I am not claiming it is anything like authoritative, but it does indicate that even if Mumbai is better than Delhi it's still got a lot of problems in those respects.

My wife's told me that the trains in Bombay are so crowded that, yeah, women are inevitably groped.  That is, I gather, a fact of life on public transport everywhere in India.  She did tell me that looking a man in the eye wouldn't get a woman raped, per se, but could very well encourage further harassment.  And she has told me that she never travels alone by bus or train at night anywhere, even in her home town, and Pune is generally speaking a pretty safe place.  So there's that.

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 05:22:57 am »
The victim has died.

. . .

Quote
Separately, authorities in Punjab state took action Thursday when an 18-year-old woman killed herself by drinking poison a month after she told police she was gang-raped.

Quote
Authorities in the eastern state of Chhattisgarh also suspended a police officer on accusations he refused to register a rape complaint from a woman who said she had been attacked by a driver.

I hope things will change.
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 09:21:29 am »
How are the Naxalite areas for womens rights?  If you know them in any detail, that is.  I would imagine the Maoists would in theory be all for equal rights, but theory is frequently compromised when working with the local culture, especially when one is aiming for a rural insurgency.  I had friends who said the Maoist areas were very clean and safe, but this was nearly a decade ago now, so lots has changed in India.

You know, I'm not sure about their stance on women's rights.  First of all, I've never had the sense of a central Naxalite organization, but the Indian newspapers I've read typically just report on another dozen police killed in Naxalite ambush and things like that, and don't really go into details about the issue.  (The police don't seem to be able to get a handle on the Naxalites at all; last I heard, the government was mulling over sending in regular army troops, because that's working so well in Jammu and Kashmir  :roll:)  At least some of the Naxalite groups have essentially degenerated into gangs who abuse and extort the villagers they're supposed to be "liberating." 

I've been stuck deep in dissertation writing for a while now, so I haven't been able to get to it, but I want to read Red Sun by Sudeep Chakravarti - I gather he's a reporter who's spent quite a bit of time with the Maoists in Naxalite-affected areas.  I can't say how good or accurate it is, but it's the only in-depth account that I can think of off the top of my head.

I've never been to the eastern half of India, so I can't say, but my wife tells me that men from Bihar have a reputation of being thugs - not in the Kali-worshiping sense, but just goons - and Bihar generally as being a land of criminals, but as I say, that's just the reputation, I don't know how much truth there is to it.

I'll have to give that a read then.  Thanks again.

Also, everyone, you may want to know a crowd of young Indians decided to demonstrate in Delhi on Christmas Eve.  There is a strong feeling that the current government simply does not care about the ongoing assaults on women and recent incidents, such as the one Roger posted about, have confirmed that feeling.  So, protest time.

The police responded by dispersing the protestors with lathis.  A lathi, for those who don't know, is a cane with a metal tip.  Used in coordination by riot police, they are very capable of crippling people, or even killing them.  Over a dozen lathi charges were carried out against unarmed protestors, with more than a few incidents of the police beating protestors lying prone and posing no threat into unconsciousness.

There are laws about where to protest in Delhi, and some of those laws were broken.  But nothing justified that kind of response from the police there.

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2012, 02:12:23 am »
I can't even...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/12/29/had-the-girl-simply-surrendered/

Quote
Had the girl simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine. Why was she out with her boyfriend at 10 pm?” These comments made by an agricultural scientist [Dr Anita Shukla] at a seminar organised by the police provoked an outrage in Madhya Pradesh on Thursday, and demands for punitive action against her.

I honest to fuck can not believe someone masquerading as a human being would say something like that.
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2012, 04:39:35 am »
I can't even...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/12/29/had-the-girl-simply-surrendered/

Quote
Had the girl simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine. Why was she out with her boyfriend at 10 pm?” These comments made by an agricultural scientist [Dr Anita Shukla] at a seminar organised by the police provoked an outrage in Madhya Pradesh on Thursday, and demands for punitive action against her.

I honest to fuck can not believe someone masquerading as a human being would say something like that.

I don't even know what to say at this point. I've written and deleted about a dozen replies. There are no adequate descriptors.
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2012, 09:14:25 am »
I can't even...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/12/29/had-the-girl-simply-surrendered/

Quote
Had the girl simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine. Why was she out with her boyfriend at 10 pm?” These comments made by an agricultural scientist [Dr Anita Shukla] at a seminar organised by the police provoked an outrage in Madhya Pradesh on Thursday, and demands for punitive action against her.

I honest to fuck can not believe someone masquerading as a human being would say something like that.

So basically, even when we follow all the bullshit fucking rules about our dress, behaviour, etc, it's still our fault.

All right, then.

 :argh!:
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2012, 09:59:50 am »
I can't even...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/12/29/had-the-girl-simply-surrendered/

Quote
Had the girl simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine. Why was she out with her boyfriend at 10 pm?” These comments made by an agricultural scientist [Dr Anita Shukla] at a seminar organised by the police provoked an outrage in Madhya Pradesh on Thursday, and demands for punitive action against her.

I honest to fuck can not believe someone masquerading as a human being would say something like that.

So basically, even when we follow all the bullshit fucking rules about our dress, behaviour, etc, it's still our fault.

All right, then.

 :argh!:

From the same link, part of the blogger's reply to the horrible comment above.

Quote
Rape victims get blamed when they resist… and when they don’t.

When rape victims don’t resist, people ask them, “Why didn’t you fight back? Why didn’t you scream for help? if only you’d fought back, maybe this wouldn’t have happened.”

And when rape victims do resist, people — such as Anita Shukla — ask them, “Why did you fight back? Why did you scream for help? You only made it worse.”

So how about this. Hear me out, I know this is a little out there, but just for a wild change of pace, let’s try this instead: “If these six men hadn’t raped and beaten her, she would not have lost her intestine. If these six men hadn’t raped and beaten her, she would not have died.”

Expecting it not to be the victim's fault is where fantasy meets reality.
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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 10:04:47 pm »
How are the Naxalite areas for womens rights?  If you know them in any detail, that is.  I would imagine the Maoists would in theory be all for equal rights, but theory is frequently compromised when working with the local culture, especially when one is aiming for a rural insurgency.  I had friends who said the Maoist areas were very clean and safe, but this was nearly a decade ago now, so lots has changed in India.

You know, I'm not sure about their stance on women's rights.  First of all, I've never had the sense of a central Naxalite organization, but the Indian newspapers I've read typically just report on another dozen police killed in Naxalite ambush and things like that, and don't really go into details about the issue.  (The police don't seem to be able to get a handle on the Naxalites at all; last I heard, the government was mulling over sending in regular army troops, because that's working so well in Jammu and Kashmir  :roll:)  At least some of the Naxalite groups have essentially degenerated into gangs who abuse and extort the villagers they're supposed to be "liberating." 

I've been stuck deep in dissertation writing for a while now, so I haven't been able to get to it, but I want to read Red Sun by Sudeep Chakravarti - I gather he's a reporter who's spent quite a bit of time with the Maoists in Naxalite-affected areas.  I can't say how good or accurate it is, but it's the only in-depth account that I can think of off the top of my head.

I've never been to the eastern half of India, so I can't say, but my wife tells me that men from Bihar have a reputation of being thugs - not in the Kali-worshiping sense, but just goons - and Bihar generally as being a land of criminals, but as I say, that's just the reputation, I don't know how much truth there is to it.

I'll have to give that a read then.  Thanks again.

Also, everyone, you may want to know a crowd of young Indians decided to demonstrate in Delhi on Christmas Eve.  There is a strong feeling that the current government simply does not care about the ongoing assaults on women and recent incidents, such as the one Roger posted about, have confirmed that feeling.  So, protest time.

The police responded by dispersing the protestors with lathis.  A lathi, for those who don't know, is a cane with a metal tip.  Used in coordination by riot police, they are very capable of crippling people, or even killing them.  Over a dozen lathi charges were carried out against unarmed protestors, with more than a few incidents of the police beating protestors lying prone and posing no threat into unconsciousness.

There are laws about where to protest in Delhi, and some of those laws were broken.  But nothing justified that kind of response from the police there.

I'm glad to hear that people are protesting.  Maybe if the police were using their lathi on rapists instead of protestors things would be different.

deadfong

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2012, 12:05:35 pm »
The police are part of the problem.

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A 18-year-old girl who was gang-raped last month committed suicide after a police officer pressed her to drop the case and marry one of her attackers

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Re: Horrible rape case in India kills PD arguments.
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2013, 06:39:26 pm »
Bump.  Craig Murray shares some insights from his own time spent in India:

Quote
Yes, the stories about rape in India have touched on a very important point about the position of women in an increasingly oppressive and rabidly conservative Hindu society. But that is part of a much wider picture. In the UK a combination of India’s historic anti-colonial role, its legend in hippy chic and latterly a reverence for economic growth appears to be handicapping a much needed airing of truths on just what a narrow, nationalist, repressive and bigoted country India is becoming.