Frequently asked questions..

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I've thought for a while now that reality is more or less fractal. What you can see at one level is more or less equal to what you will see at any other level, given enough perceptual ability to translate the information and sensory input. Also I am of the (completely unverifiable) opinion that everything that exists is interconnected because every moment that ever transpires and every object that exists anywhere ultimately combine to form a singular object/event. All matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration, and the universe is a sea of that energy; everything that arises from that energy eventually dissolves back into it, and ultimately, the entire show comes to a slow halt and collapses in on itself in really boring crash that nobody will be alive to see. My only source of information on this is my extensive use of hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I've thought for a while now that reality is more or less fractal. What you can see at one level is more or less equal to what you will see at any other level, given enough perceptual ability to translate the information and sensory input. Also I am of the (completely unverifiable) opinion that everything that exists is interconnected because every moment that ever transpires and every object that exists anywhere ultimately combine to form a singular object/event. All matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration, and the universe is a sea of that energy; everything that arises from that energy eventually dissolves back into it, and ultimately, the entire show comes to a slow halt and collapses in on itself in really boring crash that nobody will be alive to see. My only source of information on this is my extensive use of hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs.

[Elder Iptuous]

Rat,

very good!
that is all certainly agreeable.
the understanding of the limits of our perception of the order is an important point, and central to discordianism.
my point is that simply tossing the notion of order and disorder out the window as inherent and real aspects of our universe in favor of the notion that it's all in our heads is not valid in my reckoning.  we simply are limited in our understanding and perception of it.
that is all.

Vex, i must have gotten a hold of the same batch of drugs, for i share your sense regarding the fractal nature of world around us.  or mebbee it was Mandelbrot's book...

[Chairman Risus]

I think I get this...

There are things in this universe, unique.

those things are independent, but they are full of other things.

THEY DO NOT CONNECT THEMSELVES.


They exist independently.  They are not aware that there are other things that share similarities.


THEY ARE DOTS.


IT IS UP TO SOMEONE TO CONNECT THE DOTS. 




So, the dots exist, but the connections between the dots do not, until someone draws them.

This was meant as a response to a quotation a page or so ago but I lost where it went.

William James said that "truth" was something good, or useful.

Truth, James holds, is "a species of the good," like health. Truths are goods because we can "ride" on them into the future without being unpleasantly surprised. They "lead us into useful verbal and conceptual quarters as well as directly up to useful sensible termini. They lead to consistency, stability and flowing human intercourse.  They lead away from excentricity and isolation, from foiled and barren thinking" (103). Although James holds that truths are "made" (104) in the course of human experience, and that for the most part they live "on a credit system" in that they are not currently being verified, he also holds the empiricistic view that "beliefs verified concretely by somebody are the posts of the whole superstructure" (P, 100).

As a pragmatist, he basically held that things aren't "true" but the statements we make about them are. For example,

this tree is not "true", but you forming the sentence in your head "that is a tree", is "true".

What it boils down to is that in a universe where there are no beings capable of making observations like we do, there is no "truth", and in a universe where there is only one observer, how he interprets everything is the one "truth".
I ended up disagreeing with Jame's concept of "truth" because "truth" became a tool and something mutable.
The interesting ideas I got from James were more on what happened to morals in the empty universe, the one man universe and a two man universe.

[Telarus]

We really need to define our semantics a bit. I'm still working from a growing understanding of Buckminster Fuller's models.


Universe contains an information component. Lets call this 'Structure'. Example: the hexagonal arrangement of frozen water molecules.

'Pattern' though, requires 2 things. Structure and Mind. Like Bucky said, "Every happening pattern consists of memory recall." Reading a bit more into Synergetics, what he means by this is approx~

1- Universe is non-simultaneously apprehended.
  a. this means one person/viewpoint cannot, by definition, apprehend the entirety of Universe (sub A. every person's apprehension differs, i.e. subjectivity)
  b. even within one viewpoint, the factor of Time requires non-simultaneous apprehension (this is important to our pattern discussions)

-Because it takes physical time for the universe to impact upon our senses, we can never take in sense data about a 'whole' all-at-once.
-Because it takes physical time for our brain/mind to process sense-data into levels of abstraction, we can never define patterns in the external world without Memory Recall.

Structures happen externally to a viewpoint (in the case of self-awareness, even mental structures are considered external to a viewpoint... but that gets into Buddhism), Patterns happen in the mind of the observer. These are not useless distinctions.


Patterns inherently carry meaning precisely because they are an event occurring between Mind and Structure.
-----example-----
"Because this frozen water is structured hexagonally, that frozen water will be as well."

"Because of the hexagonal structure, macro-scale 'flakes' of frozen water will exhibit hexagonal symmetry."
-----/example------

Bucky: When we speak of pattern integrities, we refer to generalized patterns of conceptuality gleaned sensorially from a plurality of special-case pattern experiences... A pattern has an integrity independent of the medium by virtue of which you have received the information that it exists.


Even if you've never seen a Zebra, I can describe the "Zebra Pattern Integrity" to you such that the next time you see one, you can say, "Yup, that's a zebra. It fit's the Pattern."

[Telarus]

Here's one of Bucky's examples:

A similar example involves dropping a stone into a tank of water. "The stone does not penetrate the water molecules," Fuller explains in Synergetics, but rather "jostles the molecules," which in turn "jostle their neighboring molecules" and so on. The scattered jostling, appearing chaotic in any one spot, produces a precisely organized cumulative reaction: perfect waves emanating in concentric circles.

      Identical waves would be produced by dropping a stone in a tank full of milk or kerosene (or any liquid of similar viscosity). A wave is not liquid; it is an event, reliably predicted by initial conditions. The water will not surprise us and suddenly break out into triangular craters. As the liquid's molecular array is rearranged by an outside disturbance, all-embracing space permeates the experience. Because liquids are by definition almost incompressible, they cannot react to an applied force by contracting and expanding; rather, the water must move around. In short, the impact of any force is quickly distributed, creating the specific pattern (the visual impression of expanding concentric circles -Tel) shaped by the interaction of space's inherent constraints with the characteristics of liquid.

[the last yatto]

All matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration

your such a tool

[Jasper]

All matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration

your such a tool

It works, as terse explanations go. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

All matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration

your such a tool

I knew somebody woulr recognize the reference.

[Doktor Howl]

I hate that this perfectly serviceable vanity thread has become a real discussion.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I hate that this perfectly serviceable vanity thread has become a real discussion.

14 pages worth even!

[Adios]

I hate that this perfectly serviceable vanity thread has become a real discussion.

So did this one.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=25449.0

[the last yatto]

HEY CRAM WHATS WITH THE UGLY AVATAR?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

HEY CRAM WHATS WITH THE UGLY AVATAR?

Racist.

[the last yatto]