ITT I edit a new edition of the BIP pamphlet

[Verbal Mike]

So someone who fully comprehends the extent of his/her limitations but decides they like their life like it is is not free? I'd call someone like that free (and stupid.)

[Cain]

I want my pieces from the original ripped, as they are rubbish writing and I can do much better.  Any of my old rants are up for use.

[Verbal Mike]

which pieces, precisely? (keep in mind I have no idea who wrote almost anything in the original.)

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I would make one small correction, in that just being aware of the limitations is not enough, you must also take them into account.

Also:

Absolutely maybe! 

I think that point is a really useful thing to remember. We can have the knowledge that our perception is limited, but its real value seems to lie in using that knowledge as an 'unknown variable' in making decisions.

Reality = (What You Know + What You Don't Know) * What You Haven't Even Considered^fnord

[Cain]

which pieces, precisely? (keep in mind I have no idea who wrote almost anything in the original.)

I'll have to check again.  The previous editors probably know (Cram or LMNO).

I might write something on the Black Swan, and maybe something scientific as well.  When I was a psych student, I got a lot of good books on cognitive fallacies and the like, and have added to the list since then.

[PeregrineBF]

Only read the first page, then thought of this.
There are 2 BIPs. One is formed by your ideas about your senses, and can be escaped. The other is formed by physical limitations of your senses, and can never be escaped, only expanded. I'll call this one the Thick Concrete Box.The TCB surrounds the BIP. The TCB can be changed, you can create an infra-red camera, a radar system, a radiotelescope, an electron microscope, etc. You can use technology to expand it, but due to the uncertainty principle, among other things, you can never fully escape it. You can't even see outside it, merely chip away at the sides a bit at a time.
Every individual can (and we generally think should) break out of their BIP. But it is the job of inventors and scientists to chip away at the walls of the TCB.

[AFK]

I think I would also like to either re-write my contribution, or swap it for a different piece.  Mine was the "A Conclusion is simply where you stopped thinking" piece.  I forget what page it's on.  Anyhow, give me a day or two and I will supply you with either a re-write or a different piece that attacks approximately the same subject matter. 

[Verbal Mike]

Okay. Go wild, it doesn't necessarily have to directly approximate the old one.

[Valerie - Gone]

I don't know how much I can possibly help, but I would like to help you with this. I feel more attached to the BIP than the PD, because it made sense, it made things click in a way that the PD didn't. It's more real, in a way, than the PD. As such, I'd like to make a contribution to it, even if it's just spell-checking or some other technical thing like that.

BIP is in 2 versions now, do we really need a 3rd?  

This quote is from the first page of the thread, but I wanted to say something about it. IMO, the answer is yes. I think that the more editions there are, the better. It shows that this idea, this concept is constantly evolving. And that should be partly the point, shouldn't it? If there was only one edition, or two editions, and it stopped there, then that says that we're done with the idea. Not that we're done using it, but that we can't develop it anymore and there's nothing more to say about it. And I think once the BIP gets to that point, it won't be that much longer after that that it becomes like the PD: good for a joke, good to get started with, but otherwise not all that important (I think I'm phrasing that wrong. I was thinking of the people here who haven't even read the PD, but are involved in their own prisonbreaks. Maybe. I'm not sure). But, as this thread shows, we're years away from that situation.

Also, it was a joy to read this thread. It clarified some things for me that I wasn't quite sure about. Or maybe that I was even unaware that I needed clarifying. And I got to see what other people's BIPs looked like. I agree with what Nigel said on Page 3; that you should include snipppets of how some people view their BIP. One of the reasons I came to this forum was because I wasn't sure what to do next (still am not really clear on that). I read the BIP and I thought, "Now, what? How do I go about changing my BIP?" That's something that the BIP doesn't really address, I thought. Maybe it's not supposed to but... I learn best when someone demonstrates something for me. If I could read or discuss with people how they made their prisonbreak, or what they're doing to break out, I think it would help me to make my own escape. Or maybe I'm just too used to having someone guide me; maybe that is one of my bars that I need to break or thin.

In conclusion, I'm not entirely sure what this post was about, other than the first part. Not sure that it's even completely coherent. Hope one of you, at least, can make some sense of it.

[Cramulus]

I think it's safe to say a lot of us know just how you feel.

[Valerie - Gone]

I think it's safe to say a lot of us know just how you feel.

About what (P2 or P3)? Or were you talking about all of it?

[Cramulus]

I was mostly speaking to the exciting level of uncertainty you experience when contemplating this stuff.


see also: the Art of Memetics, starting on the bottom of page 140

[Verbal Mike]

I don't think (nor do I believe anyone else here thinks) that you can ever have made a prisonbreak. It's more a way of life, in a sense, than a single event. (But it's not really a way of life.) That's why it's kind of difficult to "demonstrate".

Anyway, thanks for the offer but I think I've got spellchecking covered. If you're very good at layout, I can use your assistance later on. I'll keep your offer in mind, if I need something else I'll let you know.

[LMNO]

I don't think (nor do I believe anyone else here thinks) that you can ever have made a prisonbreak. It's more a way of life, in a sense, than a single event. (But it's not really a way of life.) That's why it's kind of difficult to "demonstrate".

Anyway, thanks for the offer but I think I've got spellchecking covered. If you're very good at layout, I can use your assistance later on. I'll keep your offer in mind, if I need something else I'll let you know.

I believe Ratatosk views the BIP as something escapable.  At least, it sometimes appears that he believes the BIP is no longer a prison once Reconstruction becomes an accessible option.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I don't think (nor do I believe anyone else here thinks) that you can ever have made a prisonbreak. It's more a way of life, in a sense, than a single event. (But it's not really a way of life.) That's why it's kind of difficult to "demonstrate".

Anyway, thanks for the offer but I think I've got spellchecking covered. If you're very good at layout, I can use your assistance later on. I'll keep your offer in mind, if I need something else I'll let you know.

I believe Ratatosk views the BIP as something escapable.  At least, it sometimes appears that he believes the BIP is no longer a prison once Reconstruction becomes an accessible option.

BRavo, my dear LMNO, you captured my most prominent thoughts on the BiP succicently and ePrimishly!