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I am an Elitist.

Started by Golden Applesauce, June 27, 2008, 04:49:26 AM

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Golden Applesauce

   Elitism.  It's a dirty word, and it should be.  I don't like it – looking down on someone just doesn't seem right somehow.  It's one thing to say that I am better at a given task than you, or more skilled.  But for me to look at you and say, I am more enlightened than you, sheep, well that's wrong.  It's arrogant, and very often the person has perfectly reasonable reasons for doing what he does – as he has different experiences on which to build his worldview it makes sense that his worldview might be different from mine.  What appears to be simple incompetence might turn out to be mishearing or misinterpreting ambiguous directions, or someone highly skilled in one area (say, math) having to do something he simply has no talent or experience for (say, teaching math.)  Never attribute to malice  that which can be explained by stupidity, and never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by reasonableness in unreasonable circumstances.

   It's easy to think that you have all the answers (or better yet, that there are no answers, and knowing this is the real answer) and patronize those who haven't figured it out yet.  And then what happens is you meet someone who is nearly exactly like how you were so many years ago, when you thought you had your head on straight at the time – and realize that that you were a Grade A Cosmic Schmuck back then without realizing it.  The next logical thought is: if I thought I was so on top of it then, when I really wasn't, and I think I'm on top of it now, can I trust my judgment?  And meanwhile the current schmuck is sitting there, being ignorant all over that cup of joe, daring you to judge him.

   Here's the tricky part: it's impossible not to judge him.  He's an ass.  You don't want to look down on him but you can't help it because he's debased himself so much that any other perspective is impossible.  Surely there must be some circumstance that justify the seeming stinking morass of alleged humanity at the next desk.  But then you learn more about the person, and there isn't.  The reason that the twenty year old girl is a single mother of three working a temp job isn't that she misjudged the character of a man, thinking he would stay beside her, but that she never expected any of her men to stick with her very long, and there were certainly a lot more than three; she's in the temp job because she never put any effort into education, and she'll soon lose the temp job because she isn't putting any effort into this one either.  The kid who throws trash in a theater, not leaving it accidentally, fully knowing that somebody else will just have to clean it up and replies "because I'm a gangsta, yo" when you ask him why.  The manager who insists that you be on time, never as late as a minute to work or from breaks, and never check your cellphone to see if it might be the daycare calling to let you know that your son has just been hospitalized – and then is never prepared for work herself, making you wait hours sitting in a dark cubicle while she figures out whatever it was she was going to train you on today.  The man who writes a letter to the editor congratulating network teevee on casting swarthy actors as terrorists in the latest drama, saying they have courage to "show terrorists who look like real terrorists."  The adults who have nominally gone through the college system but still figure that you must be some kind of an incredible genius because you used advanced phrases like "cause and effect" in an explanation.

   I try to assume the best of people, to give them the benefit of the doubt.  It's a map, a necessarily flawed one: some people really are that poor in every virtue.  And it seems to fit less and less.  People meager in character aren't obscure minorities – people who can only be described as trash exist and they exist in large numbers.  When I was younger, I stayed separate from other social circles and told myself that I was somehow better than those I observed from the sidelines.  I eventually realized that that was a pleasant lie to tell myself; people were just different, and I was only trying to shore up my self-esteem with false superiority.  This was only half true.  The real truth is far worse: the dirty unkempt horde, the lowest common denominator, is real, devoid of anything worthy of respect, stampeding around inside the boundaries it creates for itself, a headless creation driven equally by the allure of comfortable complacency and the fear of change and the unknown.  And among that horde is a dirty elitist, not by choice but of necessity, judging every appendage of that brutal mob and finding it lacking.  He tries to think that they're all good inside, because in that way he might be saved.  Different upbringing, different background, different perceptions, different maps – but deep down he knows that for some things there is no excuse.  Sometimes, he posts on the internet.
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

The Good Reverend Roger

OTOH, knowing that - while you aren't perfect - you have your shit together far more than the monkeys around you may be elitism, but it doesn't make it not true.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Verbal Mike

Unless stated otherwise, feel free to copy or reproduce any text I post anywhere and any way you like. I will never throw a hissy-fit over it, promise.

tyrannosaurus vex

this is the best piece i have read in a while. srsly.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Iason Ouabache

#4
 :mittens:  "It's only arrogance if you're wrong"

I was honestly thinking about doing a rant on elitism, but this is 10,000x better than what I would have written.
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
    \
┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘

tyrannosaurus vex

I would like to add, though, that the tricky part comes in stopping yourself from becoming so bitter and jaded that you assume no one is capable of self-improvement. You can rob yourself of a lot of good times by writing everyone off, unless you're Roger, in which case that approach seems to work pretty well.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 27, 2008, 04:49:26 AM


   Here's the tricky part: it's impossible not to judge him.  He's an ass.  You don't want to look down on him but you can't help it because he's debased himself so much that any other perspective is impossible.  Surely there must be some circumstance that justify the seeming stinking morass of alleged humanity at the next desk.  But then you learn more about the person, and there isn't.  The reason that the twenty year old girl is a single mother of three working a temp job isn't that she misjudged the character of a man, thinking he would stay beside her, but that she never expected any of her men to stick with her very long, and there were certainly a lot more than three; she's in the temp job because she never put any effort into education, and she'll soon lose the temp job because she isn't putting any effort into this one either.  The kid who throws trash in a theater, not leaving it accidentally, fully knowing that somebody else will just have to clean it up and replies “because I'm a gangsta, yo” when you ask him why.  The manager who insists that you be on time, never as late as a minute to work or from breaks, and never check your cellphone to see if it might be the daycare calling to let you know that your son has just been hospitalized – and then is never prepared for work herself, making you wait hours sitting in a dark cubicle while she figures out whatever it was she was going to train you on today.  The man who writes a letter to the editor congratulating network teevee on casting swarthy actors as terrorists in the latest drama, saying they have courage to “show terrorists who look like real terrorists.”  The adults who have nominally gone through the college system but still figure that you must be some kind of an incredible genius because you used advanced phrases like “cause and effect” in an explanation.


I fricken love this paragraph
:thumb:
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

LMNO

Good post, except for one thing:

"Elite" doesn't mean "arrogant", or "enlightened"; That's a right-wing ploy used to quietly discredit meritocracy while paying lip service to it.

To be "elite" in something means you're among the best at whatever it is you're doing.  Personally, I would prefer an doctor in the top 10% in his recovery rates than the bottom 10%.

Daruko

Thought-provoking piece.   The term "elitism" has many different connotations.  It's meaning varies slightly with different usage.

Wikipedia says:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern [1].

Whenever I get real in depth reading about ideologies (like Elitism) I can't help but chuckle a bit about how ridiculous ideologies are when taken really seriously.    I find it a bit unsettling when I see people easily dismiss the negative connotations of elitism, as if being "truly elite" justifies "elite status".    It seems to me that the "truly elite" don't require social elevation, but necessitate it by definition.   I'm just going with my gut here.   Confidence, rather than arrogance, seems to be a more positive form of Elitism in which the emotional focus is directed at one's own lack of certain limitations without the need to make a value judgement on others.   Maybe that's no longer elitism though... What we're talking about here is another label, so it's ridiculous to speak literally as if there really are "Elitists" out there.  Individuals might fit the profile, but to approach individuals with the sole label of Elite or Non-Elite is to fail to see the individual.

Glad I read this, cuz it got me interested in reading about Pluralism and Populism and some other terms I'm not real familiar with.  LMNO's definition seems a drastic oversimplification, although that is one possible interpretation.   Negatively, one recognizes elitism when one observes someone acting snobby and arrogant.   I might make more interesting, creative, and complicated music than another schmuck, but focusing on HIS inability to produce an Elite quality of music, as I view my own, seems a tremendous waste of attention.  Even if his music is absolutely terrible, and everyone I know agrees, correlating that observation (opinion) with my own value as a musician pushes me straight into an Ego trap.   Well, really, making a value judgement on myself, instead of examining the thing I'm making, seems a waste of time.  If I make music and it is crap, and I think it's crap, does that mean something about me?  Did I enjoy making it?  Am I enjoying myself right now?  Value judgements are useful, but all too often, they get in the way.   You are every bit as non-elite to one person as you are elite to another, and seeing yourself as one or the other limits you, I think.   

I am much more interested, to echo Huxley, in looking at what I am NOT, then what I am, because the first is easier to see clearly.

GA, I really like how you've mentioned several times that you assume the best in people.  Sorry, I'm out of fuel and have to get back to work, so I'm gonna do as I usually do, and ramble myself into nonsense.  For some reason though, I thought of Wilson's "Winner's Scripts" just now, so I'm gonna link them.   :)

http://blacksunrisingpylon.blogspot.com/2008/06/eight-basic-winner-scripts-by-robert.html

LMNO

1.  This is one instance where using Wikipedia definitions does not help your case. 

2.  You're using opinions as your baseline measure in your music example; that makes the "elite" term subjective and therefore invalid.


tyrannosaurus vex

But isn't the entire discussion based on opinions? In another person's view, it may be that the people GA refers to as 'trash' are operating under a different set of priorities, which would invalidate his opinion of them.  I tend to think there are a few priorities which ought to be universally recognized. I share GA's ambivalence toward the short-sighted disposable society of the masses, but that doesn't mean it's anything more than an opinion.

Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

LMNO

True.  Perhaps I wasn't being clear-- the rant makes sense, except for applying the term "elite" to it.

He seems to be talking about arrogance, self-entitlement, delusion, and snobbery; being among the best at what you do doesn't seem to be a part of that.

tyrannosaurus vex

I took it as being half sarcastic/ironic... he tries like hell to avoid the pitfall of arrogance and "elitism," but it turns out he actually is among the elite, after all.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Daruko

I'm sure everyone here (including myself) may exhibit elitist behavior at some point or another.  Besides, didn't I call everyone an elitist already? (<--Daruko's dry humor again, WATCH OUT!)   Why exactly do you think this place has been called the "ivory tower", after all?  Discordian Elitism = Horrormirth.   

But Vexation:  Why are you calling me an elitist exactly?  You want to point to a specific elitist statement or are you just flinging shit?  Cuz um, I think I talked about how no one is really an "Elitist".  Did you catch that part?

LMNO:  Arrogance, self-entitlement, delusion, and snobbery are all forms of Elitism.  "Being the best at what you do" is ONE very NARROW definition of an Elitist, and not the first one that comes to mind, I think, for most.   A "Fag" is a fucking cigarette, but that's not how we Americans use it.  I suppose a homosexual could convince himself that a fag is a cigarette, so when people call them a fag, they can pretend it doesn't have to do with their sexuality, but in my experience, generally when the word elitism is brought up, we're talking about someone with a superiority complex.   I think a danger in putting a specifically positive spin on that term without the negative is that you end up with Big Ego's who look down on other people, and say, "Hey!  I'm just elite at what I do.   They're just non-elite at what I do.. there's nothing WRONG with saying that!" ...just seems like an excuse to be an arrogant asshole at a certain point, I thinks.  Who is to judge the elite and the non-elite?  Who is not judging?  Who is more elite at posting?  Who is the MOST elite poster on PD?   I mean, we're just talking about skills here..... right?

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

:mittens:

Well done, Ms. Applesauce. The message is clear, the writing crisp, and you put it into vivid context.

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