Thoughts on Other lifeform

[LMNO]

Not really simply that the energy is there, nothing at all mystic about it (why is everything not scientifically proven classed as 'mystic' these days?); simply how we perceive it varies.  An example is a TV channel, you percieve it as fuzz or, if you tune your TV properly as images and sound.

So you're saying that you never have to be wrong, as long as you reinterpret your data to make it fit what you want?

Why not, that's what scientists do??  I'm NOT telling anyone I'm right, sheesh!  I'm putting ideas forward which may or may not be right; It's called discussion....part of the damn point of boards like this no?

Supernatural is just a term scientists use rather than admit that they don't understand something, or to dismiss something which doesn't follow the rules properly

When scientists don't understand something, they go nuts trying to figure it out.  When something doesn't fit the rules, they go positively loony until they figure out why.  If what you are saying was true, then the double-split experiment would just have been dismissed as supernatural.  Example: right now, scientists don't really know what dark matter is made of.  They aren't saying, oh it's mysterious, its supernatural.  They're investing millions in new detectors and running experiments and they aren't going to stop until they know exactly what's going on.  This is the difference between the scientific viewpoint and the supernatural worldview.

So science doesn'yt get it wrong ever then?  There is ample evidence of paranormal activity, well documented evidence by independent witnesses which cannot be explained in any way shape or form by anyone yet something is happening and is not imaged by everyone.  However, 'serious science' dismisses it as hokum and so forth. Space is not where the fount of all knowledge resides, just where all the grants are given.  There is so much going on closer to home which is not funded and therefore not studied as it should be.  I accept other views and applaud scientic discoveries of all kinds but I still ackowledge that there is plenty that we still do not know.  To dismiss potential options is foolish in the extreme in my mind.  Therefore the box does not fit.  I am not of the 'supernatural' mind set, rather of the 'eternally curious' mind set.   Question everything because there's no persoanl growth in repeating other people's words.  Just because we can split atoms doesn't mean we can forget everything else.

Correlation is not Causation.

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once.  Could this be true of other conciousness?  Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects?  The law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes? 

My mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here

[Payne]

depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once.  Could this be true of other conciousness?  Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects?  The law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes? 

My mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here

Quantum. Again.

People never learn.

Srsly, search the forum for anything LMNO or Triple Zero have ever said about Quantum.

I mentioned laymen who take scientific theories and put their own interpretation over it? This is one of those cases.

[LMNO]

depends, if you accept quantum theory, then each human's conciousness and personality is a standing quantum wavefront and thus can propagate to all places at once. 

Um.  No.

Could this be true of other conciousness?  Could some of these phenomenon I've described be quantum effects? 

Do you even know what you're talking about?

The law of 'energy is neother created or destroyed' could also apply, do quantum wavefronts ever go away or do they move to another level and manifest in other ways, do they even leave behind echoes? 

What the fuck is a "quantum wavefront"?  Did you learn your science from Star Trek?

my mathematical skills are not what they could be (thus my mastery of quantum theory too) so I'm just throwing this out here

Quick, reel them back in!

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

I admit I don't understand quantum theory completely did I not??  I said it was an idea....sheesh I ask for clarification and ideas and reply as you did...I admit to not fully understanding and am curious and willing to learn.  Never mind...my ideas are still my ideas until I can be conclusively convinced otherwise

[LMNO]

Ok, look.  If you don't know about the science you're referencing, then it's pretty odd to use it as an example.

Also, it's not advisable to reject a possible scientific answer if you don't know enough science to validate the conclusion in the first place.


You mention a lot of "experiments" that supposedly shows "paranormal activity".

But if you don't even know the science in question, how do you know it's "paranormal"?

Who's regurgitating someone else's theories now?

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

I said it shows that such things are not strictly imaginatory but where did I cite proof positive, simply that it's possible, that's all.

I'm curious as to whether quantum theory could explain some things, I don't know and am keen to know.

I've already said I don't have answers so read what you like...

paranormal is a label which people use to qualify these occurences .

supposed phenomenon have been recorded and readings taken to show something happened but that explainations cannot be found.  I was wondering if maybe quantum theory can explain a few things?  Don't worry, I'll see what i can find myself

[Golden Applesauce]

Protip: never use the word 'quantum' to describe anything bigger than intermolecular forces.

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

thank you, then i shall not

[Golden Applesauce]

I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least.  It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down.  Only without vibrations, just... stillness.  The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.

I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.



[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant.  Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]

I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.

I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.

I was being sarcastic.  If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'

[LMNO]

That's actually fairly w1n.

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least.  It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down.  Only without vibrations, just... stillness.  The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.

I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.



[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant.  Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]

I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.

I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.

I was being sarcastic.  If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'

you posit whatever you like as far as I'm concerned.  If I don't accept it then that is my problem and not yours.  Anyone is entitled to beleive what they like as long as they never try and force it down my throat.  I was giving opinions which you can agree with or not.  You disagreed, fine

[Golden Applesauce]

I often get the sense that there is utterly no world beyond the observable, that there are no supernatural entities, nothing paranormal in the least.  It's hard to describe - it's like hearing a sound, but without tone or pitch, the kind of sound that you feel as vibrations in the organs less firmly tied down.  Only without vibrations, just... stillness.  The feelingness of being utterly alone, with only a handful of tailless apes on a rock ball kept from falling into absolute zero by nothing other than the happenstance of a fairly mediocre cosmic fusion reactor.

I know that what my senses, my intuitions, tell me are correct have not been confirmed or even supported directly by any controlled experiment (except in their lack of finding anything beyond the veil,) but I am deeply convinced that they are correct.



[On the subject of hard sf aliens: probably, but I doubt that any two such lifeforms are close enough in spacetime for either to contact the other while both are extant.  Assuming they develop in the direction of being able to communicate.]

I think that all depends on what you classify as 'observable'. What you or I can observe is so infinitesimally small compared to what's really there (as observed by scientific equipment, like microscopes and such), that I really have to wonder what else we're missing in our observations.

I think that there is far, far more 'out there', than we can possibly imagine. But it's not anything that we can sense in the normal ways. It's far more subtle than that. It's like where you describe a sound without vibration...only there is a vibration, and we can't feel it, just as we can't see things on the microscopic level without a microscope.

I was being sarcastic.  If Victory Wolf can hypothesize extranormal entities on the basis of 'colorless color,' then it stands to reason that I can posit the exact opposite on the basis of 'vibrationless sound.'

you posit whatever you like as far as I'm concerned.  If I don't accept it then that is my problem and not yours.  Anyone is entitled to beleive what they like as long as they never try and force it down my throat.  I was giving opinions which you can agree with or not.  You disagreed, fine

NO U

[LMNO]

But... your opinions stem from misinformed ideas and hypotheses that don't hold water.

[Lupernikes_shadowbark]

be that as it may, they're still my opinions and important to me.  I think I should be entitled to change them  at my own pace and in my own way.  Fair?