Author Topic: CHANGE you can believe in  (Read 18821 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2008, 05:11:59 pm »
I agree with the idea that people are born with inalienable rights, but that's still just one belief among many. It holds no inherent truth or even inherent value. It only becomes true when you act to defend that belief, and even then it is only true for you. There are no guarantees. The belief that rights are assumed and guaranteed is half of what is wrong with this country.
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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2008, 05:26:45 pm »
Just like I told my right wing nutshell friend:

"I intend to use my "god-given" freedom of speech and opinion to bitch and moan about this country as much as I want until they pry it from my cold dead hands."

He didn't like that...Fascist fucktard.
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Jenne

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2008, 05:29:34 pm »
I agree with the idea that people are born with inalienable rights, but that's still just one belief among many. It holds no inherent truth or even inherent value. It only becomes true when you act to defend that belief, and even then it is only true for you. There are no guarantees. The belief that rights are assumed and guaranteed is half of what is wrong with this country.

If you have an apple in your pocket, it stays there.  Eating the apple doesn't make it more a part of you--it's still in your pocket.  The apple doesn't disapper because you didn't eat it.

Same with freedom--it's there--you can use it or leave it, but you shouldn't be subjected to having it taken from you because you aren't actively working against those who would take it from you.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2008, 05:35:13 pm »
I'm not suggesting anyone's freedom be taken away, I'm just saying that the de-facto status of an uninhibited human is not necessarily "freedom." People are creatures of habit, we thrive on routine, and we will generally fight much harder to preserve convenience than to preserve our intellectual, religious, or social liberties. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's who we are. The only time freedom is really called into question is when you don't have it, and most people these days don't know what freedom is, much less how to secure it.
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wade

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2008, 05:36:12 pm »
sure anyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want where ever the fuck they are.  It's called being mobile, acting on thoughts desires wants...   SURE.  
However in reality you are limited to usually a small number of choices depending on where you are and if you want to live for any period of time.  And as far as I am aware, it is the biggest baddest meanest mother fuck who limits a lot of those choices before you..  

one example.. "To talk or not to talk, if I say what I think, this meathead will probably hurt me...*JFK's head blows off*" etc... everyone is theoretically free, but in reality, HA. HAHA.  I just don't get it.


I honestly do not think some adults should be allowed to vote.  they live their entire life not knowing or giving a shit about anything involving "freedom" then go ahead and vote for some dickwad because, "he's a christian" or any otehr dumbass reason...

I may be wrong, but I honestly do not see why uninvolved people should be allowed to elect asshats they  really do not know, into positions of authority.   it makes no sense to me at all.    sure it is free adn democratic and all that JAZZ BUT IT IS ALSO STUIPD AS ALL FUCKING HELL.      

If you want power all you need to do is manipulate those fucks and they'll vote for you.  Maybe all the major media outlets are owned by a small number of people for that exact reason.   ??  I say fuck that shit, stop letting dimwits vote. they have no right to vote.   just because their lard ass was motivated enough to move that day doesn't mean they have a right to vote in my opinion.   A person should be a little more involved intellectually before they are allowed to vote.





  

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2008, 05:37:29 pm »
I'm not suggesting anyone's freedom be taken away, I'm just saying that the de-facto status of an uninhibited human is not necessarily "freedom." People are creatures of habit, we thrive on routine, and we will generally fight much harder to preserve convenience than to preserve our intellectual, religious, or social liberties. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's who we are. The only time freedom is really called into question is when you don't have it, and most people these days don't know what freedom is, much less how to secure it.

Then what IS "freedom"?

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2008, 05:39:16 pm »
Running around naked and uninvited at a luncheon at a country club.
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Jenne

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2008, 05:42:15 pm »
People know freedom as soon as it's taken away, in a post-post modern democratic society.  And you can be routinized in a military dictatorship, nepotistic parochial oligarchy, or any feudalistic society as well.

The trick is to KNOW which system you are living under, and to know where your freedoms actually begin and end.  When you have that knowledge, then you can seek to change things for the better, should you perceive that need.

That knowledge, aka education, is what keeps a democracy alive.  Without it, those other systems, which humans are VERY capable of living under, will succeed instead.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 05:49:20 pm by Jenne »

Jenne

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2008, 05:44:07 pm »
sure anyone is free to do whatever the fuck they want where ever the fuck they are.  It's called being mobile, acting on thoughts desires wants...   SURE.  
However in reality you are limited to usually a small number of choices depending on where you are and if you want to live for any period of time.  And as far as I am aware, it is the biggest baddest meanest mother fuck who limits a lot of those choices before you..  

one example.. "To talk or not to talk, if I say what I think, this meathead will probably hurt me...*JFK's head blows off*" etc... everyone is theoretically free, but in reality, HA. HAHA.  I just don't get it.


I honestly do not think some adults should be allowed to vote.  they live their entire life not knowing or giving a shit about anything involving "freedom" then go ahead and vote for some dickwad because, "he's a christian" or any otehr dumbass reason...

I may be wrong, but I honestly do not see why uninvolved people should be allowed to elect asshats they  really do not know, into positions of authority.   it makes no sense to me at all.    sure it is free adn democratic and all that JAZZ BUT IT IS ALSO STUIPD AS ALL FUCKING HELL.      

If you want power all you need to do is manipulate those fucks and they'll vote for you.  Maybe all the major media outlets are owned by a small number of people for that exact reason.   ??  I say fuck that shit, stop letting dimwits vote. they have no right to vote.   just because their lard ass was motivated enough to move that day doesn't mean they have a right to vote in my opinion.   A person should be a little more involved intellectually before they are allowed to vote.





  



wade, you are so not alone in what you are thinking--but you see, the people who think that are always under the ASSumption that this will never happen to them.

That they will always be the ones taking from others or bestowing upon them.

Never the ones that this happens to.  Never the victim, always the perp.

So go ahead and keep your noggin in the sand, or up your ass, but realize too that in expressing the above you have outted yourself and someone who is not a true believe in democracy.

Roo

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2008, 05:47:45 pm »
I thought he outted himself quite a while ago...

wade

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2008, 06:20:30 pm »
good point.
I am really interested in knowing how one would determine whether or not they are allowed to vote or not...



On a side note, I'd really prefer it if we voted for the issues and not the people....

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Vene

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2008, 06:22:28 pm »
I think for the most part if you give a person a house or a car for free, they are going to treat it like shit, no respect or care will be given to it.  If they however bought it, they will treat it with care, and respect.   Same goes with "freedom"...  

I am convinced that most people in the "freeworld" do not deserve the "freedom" they have.  mainly because they are good for nothing shitheads.  

am I so wrong to beleive that?  



Yes.  You have no right to take away someone else's FUNDAMENTAL BORN-WITH-IT right.
SAYS WHO?   the lard gawd?

people aren't born with FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS.

Freedom is something the meanest asshole mother fuck in town allows you to have.

it's a privledge, not a right.
You have just forfeited you rightprivilege to life.  Kill yourself at the next available opportunity.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2008, 06:51:35 pm »
somebody needs to threadjack this thing already :|
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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2008, 06:53:05 pm »
one example.. "To talk or not to talk, if I say what I think, this meathead will probably hurt me...*JFK's head blows off*" etc... everyone is theoretically free, but in reality, HA. HAHA.  I just don't get it.

Freedom "to" does not imply freedom "from".  You can't have both.  In any free choice there are consequences, and by making a choice we accept the consequences.

Quote
I honestly do not think some adults should be allowed to vote.  they live their entire life not knowing or giving a shit about anything involving "freedom" then go ahead and vote for some dickwad because, "he's a christian" or any otehr dumbass reason...

You seem not to understand that democracy is a tyrranny of swine.  It is fair, in theory, but fairness is imperfect too.

Quote
I may be wrong, but I honestly do not see why uninvolved people should be allowed to elect asshats they  really do not know, into positions of authority.   it makes no sense to me at all.    sure it is free adn democratic and all that JAZZ BUT IT IS ALSO STUIPD AS ALL FUCKING HELL.  

We agree.  It's not perfect, but there you go.  You got a better idea?

Quote
If you want power all you need to do is manipulate those fucks and they'll vote for you.  Maybe all the major media outlets are owned by a small number of people for that exact reason.   ??  I say fuck that shit, stop letting dimwits vote. they have no right to vote.   just because their lard ass was motivated enough to move that day doesn't mean they have a right to vote in my opinion.   A person should be a little more involved intellectually before they are allowed to vote.

That's not very productive.  Why not educate people and solve the core of the problem?

Those of us fortunate enough to be citizens in a country with a constitution that says, "You are free, you can have your own views, and you have rights." have a responsibility to those rights.  Our vitality as citizens is based on our freedoms, and freedom is a matter of responsibility.

Jenne

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Re: CHANGE you can believe in
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2008, 06:55:03 pm »
He does have a better idea, Felix--Feudalism.

Vex, why so glum?  It's a good discourse... ?