This thread is now about Furries, for some reason. Formerly: "So. Anonymous."

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The very fact that an animal is incapable of consent means that it is incapable of non-consent.

The consent issue is completely irrelevent

We're supposed to know better, Iptuous.

Do we not lock up pedophiles for sexxing kiddies, even when the child can be shown to have been the "initiator"?

Not suggesting that we need to lock up beast fuckers, but the principle is largely the same.

don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the screwing of animals. i was just pointing out that if consent is the primary argument against it, then you're not on stable ground.  As is the same with pedophilia, we set an arbitrary line as determined by the majority of our society and declare it taboo to cross that line.  Same with inter-species sex, i guess. Just a good bit further out on the wtf scale......

Consent is more black and white where animals are concerned. Any intelligence they have been attributed in studies is very low on the "human" scale (think the level of human toddlers, here), and the ability for abstract thought is almost completely unproven. Both of which would be essential for meaningful consent.

Just because an animal responds instinctively to stimulus, this does not necessarily constitute consent.

Isn't assuming 'consent' sort of anthropomorphizing them as well?

I grew up in the country and honestly, animal sex is not usually about consent... that seems more like a nice thing we humans invented, because we decided that men and women were equals.

Consent is, in my view, the basis of ANY healthy sexual relationship. The inability to give "non-consent" is irrelevant, because the animal CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. A yes is a yes, a no is a no, a non-answer is a no.

So then most sex between non-humans is non-consensual?

This really seems like one of those fine lines... if we were created as Above the animals, then obviously fucking them is wrong. If we're just a species of animal that happened to evolve a big brain... well, then its inter-species sex which happens commonly among animals, as does masturbation and homosexuality (and homosexual parents).

[Payne]

so animals have unhealthy relationships?

Animals don't have relationships as we'd term it.

Animals have sexual instincts that have evolved over thousands of years and are particular to each species. Some of these instincts may have the appearance of a relationship (a single long term sexual partner in some species, for example) this does not make it a relationship as we see it. It's just response to instinct.

[Payne]

So then most sex between non-humans is non-consensual?

This really seems like one of those fine lines... if we were created as Above the animals, then obviously fucking them is wrong. If we're just a species of animal that happened to evolve a big brain... well, then its inter-species sex which happens commonly among animals, as does masturbation and homosexuality (and homosexual parents).

I never said we were "created as above the animals", I said that we have a complex set of values and intelligence (apparently. It doesn't seem to be on show in this thread) that makes us seperate from the animals.

We can over ride our instinct, animals cannot.

[Elder Iptuous]

Animals don't have relationships as we'd term it.
Animals have sexual instincts that have evolved over thousands of years and are particular to each species. Some of these instincts may have the appearance of a relationship (a single long term sexual partner in some species, for example) this does not make it a relationship as we see it. It's just response to instinct.

Can humans have sexual activities outside of a relationship, as you are terming it, without it being unhealthy?

[Darth Cupcake]

I'm with Payne in all this.

[Payne]

Animals don't have relationships as we'd term it.
Animals have sexual instincts that have evolved over thousands of years and are particular to each species. Some of these instincts may have the appearance of a relationship (a single long term sexual partner in some species, for example) this does not make it a relationship as we see it. It's just response to instinct.

Can humans have sexual activities outside of a relationship, as you are terming it, without it being unhealthy?

I never said a relationship was essential.

I said that anthropomorphising animals to the point where their instincts are viewed as a relationship is wrong.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Consent is off the table! We have already established that animals are incapable of consent.

It is generally acceptable to do anything with an animal, right up to killing and eating the fucker, as long as the animal is not caused unnecessary distress. Now we can scientifically establish whether an animal is distressed. If the animal is caused no undue distress (I'm guessing we have to rule out cats and hamsters and the like) Then the only thing we're not allowed to do is fuck them. The reason for this is our weird-ass psychological neurosis about sex.

Just because it doesn't float my boat I am broadminded enough to except that some people like to do all sorts of things from gay buttsecks to tying each other up and pouring hot candle wax on the genitals. Even dressing up as winnie the poo and getting down and dirty.

Fucking a non distressed animal is as acceptable to me as any of the rest of it.

"Whatever you have to do to have a good time, let's get on with it, so long as it doesn't cause a murder"

[Payne]

I'm with Payne in all this.

Wow. Thanks.

I was beginning to lose hope that there were any people left who can actually think at all in here.

[Payne]

Consent is off the table! We have already established that animals are incapable of consent.

It is generally acceptable to do anything with an animal, right up to killing and eating the fucker, as long as the animal is not caused unnecessary distress. Now we can scientifically establish whether an animal is distressed. If the animal is caused no undue distress (I'm guessing we have to rule out cats and hamsters and the like) Then the only thing we're not allowed to do is fuck them. The reason for this is our weird-ass psychological neurosis about sex.

Just because it doesn't float my boat I am broadminded enough to except that some people like to do all sorts of things from gay buttsecks to tying each other up and pouring hot candle wax on the genitals. Even dressing up as winnie the poo and getting down and dirty.

Fucking a non distressed animal is as acceptable to me as any of the rest of it.

"Whatever you have to do to have a good time, let's get on with it, so long as it doesn't cause a murder"

And what I've been saying all along is that this has nothing to do with the animals welfare at all.

What I find distasteful is the byzantine self-justification that animal fuckers indulge in.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Consent is off the table! We have already established that animals are incapable of consent.

It is generally acceptable to do anything with an animal, right up to killing and eating the fucker, as long as the animal is not caused unnecessary distress. Now we can scientifically establish whether an animal is distressed. If the animal is caused no undue distress (I'm guessing we have to rule out cats and hamsters and the like) Then the only thing we're not allowed to do is fuck them. The reason for this is our weird-ass psychological neurosis about sex.

Just because it doesn't float my boat I am broadminded enough to except that some people like to do all sorts of things from gay buttsecks to tying each other up and pouring hot candle wax on the genitals. Even dressing up as winnie the poo and getting down and dirty.

Fucking a non distressed animal is as acceptable to me as any of the rest of it.

"Whatever you have to do to have a good time, let's get on with it, so long as it doesn't cause a murder"

And what I've been saying all along is that this has nothing to do with the animals welfare at all.

What I find distasteful is the byzantine self-justification that animal fuckers indulge in.

I agree... but I have that problem with 99.9% of humanity. The bastards justify everything they do, no matter how idiotic.

[Payne]

I've stated my case as exhaustively as I can, and tried to avoid the shifting of goalposts as much as possible.

If having this "sexual hangup" makes me an asshole, so be it.

I'm out of this thread.

[Elder Iptuous]

I never said a relationship was essential.
I said that anthropomorphising animals to the point where their instincts are viewed as a relationship is wrong.

ah, i c. that is different.  I also think i, perhaps, am misinterpreting your use of the word 'wrong' to mean intrinsically wrong, rather than against an arbitrary taboo we have set up as a society, or self-delusional...

Wow. Thanks.
I was beginning to lose hope that there were any people left who can actually think at all in here.

don't get testy, now.  
all in good fun. from my angle you're the one standing behind an arbitrary social norm (that i also defend for the sake of social cohesion) and implying that it is somehow based on logic..... that's all i'm arguing against.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Okay I take it all back, I've seen the error of my ways. Sex is something that can only happen between a man and a lady, who love each other very much, with the lights off. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Well I have the same sexual hangup... I sure as hell don't want to fuck animals. However, I don't think it's a cut and dried people who 'can actually think' kind of issue.

I think its a big ol brick in mosbunal of our Black Iron Prisons. I don't know that there's anything wrong with that. Some of us like our BiP, or at least some parts of it, some of us don't, some of us never tell

In all honesty, I think threads like this are a major reason why 'pd.com' and it's denizens are 'different' from the usual sort of people. I think I could point to pretty much all sides of this thread and say "See, that IS what "Think For Yourself, Schmuck" means. Not, THINK OPPOSITE OF SOCIETY, or THINK LIKE OTHER DISCORDIANS, or THINK DIFFERENT UNLESS THE SUBJECT IS UNCOMFORTABLE.

Payne, Pent, Shadowfist, all of you seem to be using your brains... that's pretty good IMO (I would say IMHO, but ya'll know me too well).

[Elder Iptuous]

Payne, Pent, Shadowfist, all of you seem to be using your brains... that's pretty good IMO

I can't 'actually think'.