DISCORDIA: A Brief Critique

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Well, I'm gonna be a bad Discordian for just a minute and look to the past.

The most successful Discordian promotional material up to this point, seems to utilize traditional channels. The same seems true of the SubGenuis impact. Illuminatus Trilogy, Principia Discordia, BoSG, etc are all traditional forms of media that used traditional media outlets. Bob promoted via the lecture circuit and books. Stang promotes via radio, book and lecture. Even our erstwhile bastion of Erisian Delights, pd.com is a now traditional media outlet.

GASMS, Pranks etc seem extremely useful as tools to mindfuck sombunal individuals... but I can't recall a good example of mindfuckery creating a lasting impression upon a mass audience. I mean, even with the Big Pranksters (Yes Men, Joey Skaggs etc), how much of a name have they made outside a small subculture?

I don't know that Mass Discordia is a good idea... I'm not even sure that I agree with Vex's view of what Discordianism is... I'm still thinking about it. However, I do think that counting on Memetics, Mindfucks, Pranks and GASMS might be self-defeating. Those tools might land a big win, but based on where we are and what's worked in the past, maybe those are long shots and we'd be better off focusing the majority of our energy on traditional tools with a smaller percentage of that energy invested in long shots with big payoffs.

If we produced something that could be published in a traditional sense, I'd guess that New Falcon, Deep Leaf or one of the other pro-RAW places just might help publish and promote it. If we rely on PDF's and the Internet, maybe it would work... or maybe it will get lost in all the other noise.I don't know, but it seems like something worth mentioning, IMO.

In Corporate Speak... R&D should be somewhere under 50% of the budget

I'll post a rebuttal to this shortly...

Memetics have been in use since the beginning of Discordianism. They just weren't using that label, so memes, just as much as Publishing Houses, have been successful tools of Discordian expansion.

What we need to do is merge media with mindfuck.

"What if the Green were Red" is a great mindfuck... IF however, "What if the Green were Red" was not only a small sign on a field, but if it were also whatifthegreenwerered.com and "What If The Green Were Red?" billboards etc... then you would have something that might hook a few fish. This might also include a "What If The Green Were Red?" troll or HIMEOBS grade attack on random forums... and "What If The Green Were Red" media kits mailed out to news orgs.

All of this, of course, leading up to a "What If The Green Were Red" book, which actually discusses the memes, ideas, concepts etc that we think will change the system, or break the machine or just make people think a bit.

In some sense, it pranking, in some sense its memetic warfare, in some sense its just advertising.

In some sense, its probably bullshit.

[Reginald Ret]

i fully agree with that sentiment, Cram.

the First thing we need to do is breach the Mass Media barrier somehow. whether that's with outright discordianism or not isn't all that important, so long as there is an opportunity made.

For example, a mailing campaign where 150 people send mini-DVDs to TV stations across the country, simultaneously, and the content of the disc is a short video that says "IMAGINE THIS WAS A BOMB" or something.

That would probably get picked up, and just the content of the disc could be enough of a MF without any commentary or interviews afterward.

This is actually quite spectacular and lovely.

I hope the people doing the mailing would take EXTREME caution in making the DVD and envelope completely untraceable.

naw leave as many fingerprints you want, having 150 different fingerprints will freak them out even moar

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Well, I'm gonna be a bad Discordian for just a minute and look to the past.

The most successful Discordian promotional material up to this point, seems to utilize traditional channels. The same seems true of the SubGenuis impact. Illuminatus Trilogy, Principia Discordia, BoSG, etc are all traditional forms of media that used traditional media outlets. Bob promoted via the lecture circuit and books. Stang promotes via radio, book and lecture. Even our erstwhile bastion of Erisian Delights, pd.com is a now traditional media outlet.

GASMS, Pranks etc seem extremely useful as tools to mindfuck sombunal individuals... but I can't recall a good example of mindfuckery creating a lasting impression upon a mass audience. I mean, even with the Big Pranksters (Yes Men, Joey Skaggs etc), how much of a name have they made outside a small subculture?

I don't know that Mass Discordia is a good idea... I'm not even sure that I agree with Vex's view of what Discordianism is... I'm still thinking about it. However, I do think that counting on Memetics, Mindfucks, Pranks and GASMS might be self-defeating. Those tools might land a big win, but based on where we are and what's worked in the past, maybe those are long shots and we'd be better off focusing the majority of our energy on traditional tools with a smaller percentage of that energy invested in long shots with big payoffs.

If we produced something that could be published in a traditional sense, I'd guess that New Falcon, Deep Leaf or one of the other pro-RAW places just might help publish and promote it. If we rely on PDF's and the Internet, maybe it would work... or maybe it will get lost in all the other noise.I don't know, but it seems like something worth mentioning, IMO.

In Corporate Speak... R&D should be somewhere under 50% of the budget

I'll post a rebuttal to this shortly...

I should have made a clearer distinction between Discordia and O:MF.

I do not care how "famous" Discordians get: in fact, like Nigel, I hope we don't get famous at all. WE are not the ones who should get to be the subject of scrutiny. Our actions should.

As for widespread, lasting impact on a mass market -- so far, mindfucks haven't really attempted to do so, but there are good examples of it happening accidentally -- think Aqua Teen Hunger Force viral marketing Lite-Brite incident in Boston.

This kind of thing is what I'm after, except make it deliberate (and obviously so) and make the incidents correlate in a way that looks like somebody is trying to hide something instead of advertise.

[fomenter]

I should have made a clearer distinction between Discordia and O:MF.

I do not care how "famous" Discordians get: in fact, like Nigel, I hope we don't get famous at all. WE are not the ones who should get to be the subject of scrutiny. Our actions should.

As for widespread, lasting impact on a mass market -- so far, mindfucks haven't really attempted to do so, but there are good examples of it happening accidentally -- think Aqua Teen Hunger Force viral marketing Lite-Brite incident in Boston.

This kind of thing is what I'm after, except make it deliberate (and obviously so) and make the incidents correlate in a way that looks like somebody is trying to hide something instead of advertise.

good clarification- i see no reason for discordia to be famous  either, it is better off being small under the radar famous/popular gets co opted in ways we wouldn't like and we would have to create a new banner to work/meet under. creating the appearance of a hidden and confusing agenda that makes lots of people wonder what strange and powerful forces are at work 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

i fully agree with that sentiment, Cram.

the First thing we need to do is breach the Mass Media barrier somehow. whether that's with outright discordianism or not isn't all that important, so long as there is an opportunity made.

For example, a mailing campaign where 150 people send mini-DVDs to TV stations across the country, simultaneously, and the content of the disc is a short video that says "IMAGINE THIS WAS A BOMB" or something.

That would probably get picked up, and just the content of the disc could be enough of a MF without any commentary or interviews afterward.

This is actually quite spectacular and lovely.

I hope the people doing the mailing would take EXTREME caution in making the DVD and envelope completely untraceable.

naw leave as many fingerprints you want, having 150 different fingerprints will freak them out even moar

Fingerprints are only traceable if they're on file. That's not what I'm talking about.

Having MIBs show up at your house with a laundry list of questions when you're trying to get your kids to the sitter so that you can get to work on time is *really* inconvenient.

[Reginald Ret]

get your kids fingerprints on them
and i was assuming noone with registered fingerprints would be dumb enough to leave them on such things.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

the first trace would have nothing to do with fingerprints: amass a list of where each package was mailed from using the postmark, then cross-reference those locations with the known membership of known networks, beginning with the high-profile organizations and working your way down. when you find nothing, then you'd analyze internet traffic and try to find websites that are frequently accessed by a set of nodes that is roughly similar to the map of package senders. which, of course, would lead them directly to PD. once you find somebody's internet tracks it's fairly easy to zero in on their IRL identity.

the answer to this is to work out an internet communication system that either masks your physical location (hard to do) or where individual members don't access the same central location (also hard to do).

just saying.

[Requia ☣]

possibly a little too mean: get completely random people's fingerprints.  Just take the (unmarked DVD) and with your gloved hands mostly full, ask some stranger to hold it for a sec.

Also, bomb threats/anything that smells of one will probaby just get the sheep panicking.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

at any rate, this isn't the place to discuss individual tactics or operations. i was just brainstorming some examples of what i was talking about.

[Golden Applesauce]

What's the goal here?  What are 'we' trying to accomplish?

I agree that it might be beneficial if some ideas generated by Discordians (I'm thinking OMF, Shrapnel, Why I Put Up Posters, Sacred Bull etc.) got more mainstream exposure.  But actual discordians?  I dunno - seems like that would get real old, real fast.

A conspiracy?  What for? What would we do with one?

I think publishing books is the idea to go with.  Children's books that introduce concepts like tolerating ambiguity, optional rules, etc. would be an awesome idea.  There's a children's book which a panda that presents Buddhist parables to a pair of children ("Zen Shorts.")  Something like that with No-Pants would be awesome.


So: Formal Proposal Time:

We need to write a book.  A book that takes the best of the original PD, the BiP, our discussions on this forum, etc.  We need to publish it, and we need to promote it.  It will be... the Secunda Tertia Discordia, or STD. 


I'm seeing hardcover book, the kind that gets reviewed in blogging circles.  (Randall Munroe might be a good place to start.) and eventually makes its way into a newspaper review circle.

The book presents the "Discordian Worldview" (or maybe a few conflicting "Discordian Worldview.")  It presents the Curse of Greyface and the Black Iron Prison as two faces of the same coin.  It presents memetics and warns of being a 'dirty sneezer', especially in relationship to sneezing this book.  It elaborates further on the concept of the Reality Grids by showing how the same event can be validly interpreted with different models.  (Perhaps invoking Piaget?)  It presents Absurdism and relates it Horrormirth and The Lulz.


Second Proposal:

We make children's books that introduce "Discordian" concepts.

These won't be overtly Discordian, but will instead promote healthy ideas for healthy children.  Any link to Discordianism would be in the About the Author section.

Brainstorm:
The Emperor's New Rules - The Emperor needs some new laws, so a pair of cunning lawyers sell him a new set of laws that essentially boil down to making sure people follow the new set of laws, and any good citizen can see that plainly.  Blah blah blah a little boy asks why they need the new laws in the first place since they they don't accomplish anything but make life more obnoxious.  You know the story.

A new kid moves into the neighborhood and organizes the kids into fun, but ultimately pointless, activities.  Another watches and, for every thing they do, demands to know what the point is.  All the other kids have a blast, but he misses out.  Greyface kid might optionally organize the parents to ban some harmless activity because he personally doesn't like it.

[Cramulus]

I think publishing books is the idea to go with. 

I agree, I think this is one possible route to awesome. We've had some good talk about this, see below:

So: Formal Proposal Time:

We need to write a book.  A book that takes the best of the original PD, the BiP, our discussions on this forum, etc.  We need to publish it, and we need to promote it.  It will be... the Secunda Tertia Discordia, or STD. 

Yes! Please start a thread about this and take the reigns to edit it / collect material.

this is the exact exact exact energy (from what I've read) which minted the Black Iron Prison metaphor. (then called the PD06)

I am working on this simultaneously with the Etc. Discordia, but it is not intended to be a total repackaging, just a collection of some stuff floating on the top. It is taking a long time, but it will be worth the wait.

but that should not preclude anyone from rewriting the Principia


Which is a very interesting process







kind of like building a lightsaber

Second Proposal:

We make children's books that introduce "Discordian" concepts.

I agree, please refer to the thread in progress in the TFYSS subsection,
BIP for Kids (Johnny Learns About the World)

and help them with progress. A manuscript is in place, and Hoopla is starting to illustrate stuff.
It's not my project, but I imagine they'd appreciate help coaching its direction.

[Golden Applesauce]

A children's story about a handful of delusional/OCD kids, who believes with absolute conviction that the dark-colored tiles really are lava, that their nose-line must not be allowed to cross with other lines, that Cthulhu will get in their rooms if they allow things to be at right angles to each other.  Oh, and a kid who believes with absolute conviction that praying to God every night will help his mom get better.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Read the thread. I'm not talking about making a conspiracy, I was making an example that consisted of a hypothetical illusion of a conspiracy that could feed into public fear for no reason except to sow discord and show people, for example that they're selling their souls for only a pitiful illusion of "security" -- they're signing away real rights and liberty for nothing at all. The Discordian Society itself doesn't need to benefit from anything 'we' do - it's still the DS and it has nothing to do with being a legitimate or even recognized group.

[Golden Applesauce]

Cram - yeah, I was aware of Johnny Learns about the World.  I'll have to look back into that.

Mostly I feel the burning need to do something to counter toxic memes in children.  Back when I was in high school I had to transfer buses to one used by the local Catholic school.  Some of the children on that bus had enough bigotry, hatred, judgmentalism, and in-group/out-group mentality to last them the rest of their lives.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

get your kids fingerprints on them
and i was assuming noone with registered fingerprints would be dumb enough to leave them on such things.

Fingerprints are soooo not the main way packages are traced, dude. Let's just call them irrelevant in this scenario.