Mindsculpting: Eris loves you.

[Cain]

Makes sense to me, as a symbol.

Of course, I do not necessarily agree with the not learning to go after it part.  I think Mikhail Bakunin was onto something when he said "the urge for destruction is also a creative urge."  Sometimes the best way to make something new is to smash something that already exists and put it together in another way.  Preferably that would be done knowingly, but it need not be.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Rat, my Eris is perhaps a reflection of some part of me, but for the most part my Eris is a reflection of the arbitrary universe I see around me, sometimes beautiful and sometimes devastating, and it is up to me to be the comforting, stable mother-nurturer. I don't need an external one.

I would tend to suspect that people are more likely to see Eris as the complement to ourselves, rather than a mirror of ourselves.

Maybe... though your descriptions of how you perceive reality, seem a lot like your descriptions of how you tend to perceive Eris... or at least I seem to find a lot of similarities. Same for most Discordians I know, and that was the point I guess I was trying to make.

Some Discordians seem to see the world of humanity as something on the cusp of a Singularity or Revolution or Evolution or Renaissance... and those Discordians, more often than not, see Eris in an almost entirely positive light.

Others seem to consider the world of humankind on the verge of some terrible collapse and humanity as a fetid pool of wasted potential... and they often tend to focus on a darker interpretation of Eris.

Some people seem to fly through life with explosions happening left and right and they do good just to serpentine through the shrapnel, except on the rare occasion where something wonderful pops up as a temporary shield to hide behind... and those people often tend to see Eris as neither good nor evil (since she's likely throwing shrapnel at you... and providing you the alley to hide in for a brief respite).

From my perspective, based soley on what I know about you from this forum... you seem to embrace an Eris somewhat like the third option... and you seem to perceive reality in a manner similar to that as well... I could be wrong.

Certainly there are 100000000023 other ways that one might perceive reality and Eris, I just listed a few as examples.

The BiP, Reality Grids, Filters... they make the whole Universe a big mirror. Eris, due to her distinct lack of defined dogmatic structure, seems especially prone to this.

[OPTIMUS PINECONE]

Makes sense to me, as a symbol.

Of course, I do not necessarily agree with the not learning to go after it part.  I think Mikhail Bakunin was onto something when he said "the urge for destruction is also a creative urge."  Sometimes the best way to make something new is to smash something that already exists and put it together in another way.  Preferably that would be done knowingly, but it need not be.

     I think that's a necessary part of moving forward. Probably not healthy on a daily basis, though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Makes sense to me, as a symbol.

Of course, I do not necessarily agree with the not learning to go after it part.  I think Mikhail Bakunin was onto something when he said "the urge for destruction is also a creative urge."  Sometimes the best way to make something new is to smash something that already exists and put it together in another way.  Preferably that would be done knowingly, but it need not be.

You do have a point there. The destructive strife is sometimes necessary.

But most of the time, warfare is not, and that's such a driving force in our world.

[Bu🤠ns]

This too is my problem with BIP - there's very little joy in it.  Hill and Thornley were clowns, pointing out the absurdity of life in a fun way, and that for me is a large part of the point of Discordianism.  "The Enlightened Take Things Lightly."  Cynicism is easy, and pervasive in our culture, and frankly I'm kinda sick of it.  It benefits no one - even the cynic who uses it as a shield is only admitting the crappiness of life and using their cynicism as a shield against it.

Ditch the shield, and instead take up the sword.

just an aside: that is probably the most common critique about the BIP.  The model still works though.  if i understand it correctly, the text is an attempt for self-awareness.  to expose the limitations of perceptions and i feel it's more effective to create a stir than to pat on the back. buddhists recognise suffering as a peliminary to change.  and i'm just imagining here but i wonder how many people turn to chirst while having a fulfillilng life.  LMNO presents and alternative metaphor called the Golden Sphere of Possibility and i'm of the opinion that both BIP AND GSP need to go together.

...please to carry on with rest of thread...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Maybe... though your descriptions of how you perceive reality, seem a lot like your descriptions of how you tend to perceive Eris... or at least I seem to find a lot of similarities. Same for most Discordians I know, and that was the point I guess I was trying to make.

Some people seem to fly through life with explosions happening left and right and they do good just to serpentine through the shrapnel, except on the rare occasion where something wonderful pops up as a temporary shield to hide behind... and those people often tend to see Eris as neither good nor evil (since she's likely throwing shrapnel at you... and providing you the alley to hide in for a brief respite).

From my perspective, based soley on what I know about you from this forum... you seem to embrace an Eris somewhat like the third option... and you seem to perceive reality in a manner similar to that as well... I could be wrong.

Yes, that is basically what I was saying.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd like to see the Golden Sphere of Possibility actually finished, as a companion booklet to the BIP.

[Cain]

Any singular interpretation is flawed and incomplete.  However, so long as one interpretation is being popular and widely held, a counter-interpretation should necessarily exist, to question the former to the extent that its adherents question it themselves.

From that, a multiplication of forms and interpretations are possible.  But so long as the former position of belief (the unreconstituted PD view) is in a monopoly position, due to bizzare reason of desiring authority (fear of doing it wrong) and keeping that position by denigrating all others (despite two attempts by the PD authors to undermine their own legitimacy), then any attempts at widespread diffusion of those multiple interpretations is impossible, and will be shoved to the margins by those holding the centre.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Any singular interpretation is flawed and incomplete.  However, so long as one interpretation is being popular and widely held, a counter-interpretation should necessarily exist, to question the former to the extent that its adherents question it themselves.

From that, a multiplication of forms and interpretations are possible.  But so long as the former position of belief (the unreconstituted PD view) is in a monopoly position, due to bizzare reason of desiring authority (fear of doing it wrong) and keeping that position by denigrating all others (despite two attempts by the PD authors to undermine their own legitimacy), then any attempts at widespread diffusion of those multiple interpretations is impossible, and will be shoved to the margins by those holding the centre.

I agree with everything you said here, in at least some sense (for example, I think the monoploy of belief, has more to do with internet chatter than any sort of statement about Discordians as a whole).

However, with everything else, I think you make great points. So then IF we have a monopolistic interpretation "Eris IS Hippy" and we want to create a counter argument... based on your first statement... wouldn't the better counter-argument be "Any singular interpretation is flawed and incomplete" rather than "Eris IS Bitch" (which seems to be the most popular alternate currently) or "Eris IS_____" (which will suffice for the less popular versions)?

Please note, so that there is no misunderstanding, I am not accusing you personally of any view good bad or indifferent... I think you made a good point and I am asking you as one person to another, on the basis of that point.   

[Cain]

I think a potential counter-hegemonic argument is the best way to proceed.  A multiplicity of counterarguments may be too easy to dismiss as being incoherent or weak, and thus easily ignored.  The primary need is to break the monopoly of interpretation, and I believe this would do it most effectively.  My hope would be it would gain enough critical mass to break down this monopoly in a thesis-antithesis-synthesis manner which would effectively open up the breadth of interpretation considered viable.  Instead of the synthesis being a reconciliation of the opposing views (which in my opinion would be impossible, or near enough to) it would be a coalition under the single banner which would dissolve once the primary interpretation's strangehold was broken, opening up the field entirely.

In theory.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I don't know... I guess its because of my exposure to the American political system that I would expect more of a pendulum action than any sort of reconciliation.

I'll have to think on that.

[Cain]

It could go that way.  However I don't think it would, since even the introduction of another interpretation would be a radical shock to the system.  Often, in the early days of a post-system shakeup you get the most innovation and creation.

[Golden Applesauce]

Eris was a Republican.

[Cain]

I had her down as the Constitution Party type myself.

[OPTIMUS PINECONE]

Eris was a Republican.

     You mean the old-school kind? Like Nixon?