DISCORDIANISM: NO SUCH THING

[tyrannosaurus vex]

In my recent Critique of Discordia, I ran into a lot of "I don't want to proselytize any Religion" and "What's in it for Discordianism?" complaints. These are valid concerns, and ones that I agree with, I might add. They do however betray an apparent inability on my part to clearly establish what the hell I am talking about. So, let me offer a clarification of some issues that were left unanswered in the last discussion.

First of all, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "DISCORDIANISM." I can say this with a straight face because I am, in fact, a Discordian. I do not believe there is any useful set of guiding principles, mythos, or imagery that could ever be compiled into anything even remotely resembling a Religion whose purpose is to "teach" people anything. You cannot teach anyone anything worthwhile by acquainting them with a static mythology and expecting them to "get it." They won't.

I am a Discordian, and I do not believe in "Discordianism." I believe, rather, in DISCORDIA, which is not a religion, or a "path," or a "journey," or any such bollocks. Instead, Discordia is a phenomenon. It is a peculiar situation that arises every time a bunch of disjointed, disconnected, Discordians cooperate against large odds to accomplish something.

So I am not looking to enlarge, enhance, or enrich "Discordianism" with new members. My aim is not to establish "us" as some kind of recognizable -- let alone respectable -- religious or philosophical sect. I like my Discord as it is: impossible to replicate anywhere. If it ceased to be that, it would cease to be useful to me.

So when I say I want to see DISCORDIA make an impact, here is what I'm talking about: I'm talking about a widespread knowledge that SOMETHING IS HAPPENING. Because look -- something IS happening: BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights; liberty is being devoured by fear; cultures are drowning in oceans of bullshit; responsibility is being erased. Can we change any of that? No. But we can sure as hell make more people AWARE of it.

As for "Discordianism," as far as the Masses are concerned, that should be no more than a sticker on our product. Their shoes were made in China, and their mindfuck was made in "Discordianism." Let them know that the Legion of Dynamic Discord exists: but don't bother trying to tell them what it is, they'll just misunderstand anyway.

Ultimately, "Activitism" is not a requirement for all Discordians -- and it should be OFF LIMITS to anybody who wants to sell "Discordianism." But it is a sacred sacrament to those of us who count ourselves as Discordians who want to see DISCORDIA grow. Not as a movement, not as a philosophy, and sure as hell not as a religion -- but as a mysterious phenomenon that forces people to ask questions.

[Manta Obscura]

In my recent Critique of Discordia, I ran into a lot of "I don't want to proselytize any Religion" and "What's in it for Discordianism?" complaints. These are valid concerns, and ones that I agree with, I might add. They do however betray an apparent inability on my part to clearly establish what the hell I am talking about. So, let me offer a clarification of some issues that were left unanswered in the last discussion.

First of all, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "DISCORDIANISM." I can say this with a straight face because I am, in fact, a Discordian. I do not believe there is any useful set of guiding principles, mythos, or imagery that could ever be compiled into anything even remotely resembling a Religion whose purpose is to "teach" people anything. You cannot teach anyone anything worthwhile by acquainting them with a static mythology and expecting them to "get it." They won't.

I am a Discordian, and I do not believe in "Discordianism." I believe, rather, in DISCORDIA, which is not a religion, or a "path," or a "journey," or any such bollocks. Instead, Discordia is a phenomenon. It is a peculiar situation that arises every time a bunch of disjointed, disconnected, Discordians cooperate against large odds to accomplish something.

So I am not looking to enlarge, enhance, or enrich "Discordianism" with new members. My aim is not to establish "us" as some kind of recognizable -- let alone respectable -- religious or philosophical sect. I like my Discord as it is: impossible to replicate anywhere. If it ceased to be that, it would cease to be useful to me.

So when I say I want to see DISCORDIA make an impact, here is what I'm talking about: I'm talking about a widespread knowledge that SOMETHING IS HAPPENING. Because look -- something IS happening: BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights; liberty is being devoured by fear; cultures are drowning in oceans of bullshit; responsibility is being erased. Can we change any of that? No. But we can sure as hell make more people AWARE of it.

As for "Discordianism," as far as the Masses are concerned, that should be no more than a sticker on our product. Their shoes were made in China, and their mindfuck was made in "Discordianism." Let them know that the Legion of Dynamic Discord exists: but don't bother trying to tell them what it is, they'll just misunderstand anyway.

Ultimately, "Activitism" is not a requirement for all Discordians -- and it should be OFF LIMITS to anybody who wants to sell "Discordianism." But it is a sacred sacrament to those of us who count ourselves as Discordians who want to see DISCORDIA grow. Not as a movement, not as a philosophy, and sure as hell not as a religion -- but as a mysterious phenomenon that forces people to ask questions.

I love this idea, vex. I'm pretty sure I am one of the folks who misinterpreted you in the other thread, so I'm glad you clarified.

[Bu🤠ns]

this about sum it up for me.  i still can't imagine admitting to being a part of some group calling themselves 'Discordians' and all of the implication therein.  calling it a phenomenon is probably the best word i've heard for it. it retains the subjectivity of it's (loosely termed) adherants without defining a static goal.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

This is full of WIn and I agree with all but this bit:

something IS happening: BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights; liberty is being devoured by fear; cultures are drowning in oceans of bullshit; responsibility is being erased. Can we change any of that? No. But we can sure as hell make more people AWARE of it.

I'm not sure how or why those particular issues are dropped in here. They don't seem to be particularly Discordian to me.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

i'm terrible with examples, i guess. so sue me. i guess focus more on the "liberty is being devoured by fear" point. this isn't just your average bland altruism that i'm trying to talk about, it's that the character of our society is devolving to a point where nothing important matters at all. and it isn't just general, out-there stuff. if i live in a town where everyone is buckled down and repressed for fear of what might happen if they're not, that makes it more difficult for me to exercise my own inherent freedom, and that isn't okay with me.

i'm not really trying to save the human race, but it would be nice to foster an environment where real freedom isn't synonymous with danger, and where individual expression can be appreciated for what it is rather than abhorred for what people think it might be.

like it or not, we all have a personal stake in the larger society we live in. i don't think i can come to terms or accept the notion that Big Things just don't matter at all, because they effect me. and when the Big Things that are happening, happen because people are generally too unconscious to notice what's going on around them, and I do notice them, then what absolves me of a responsibility to draw their attention to it? It's like being on a bus when the driver has a heart attack and the rest of the passengers are asleep, then deciding it isn't my job to do something about it.

I don't give a fuck about saving the world, but god dammit, these apes are trying to take me down with them and I want to do what I can to stop them.

[Cramulus]

This is full of WIn and I agree with all but this bit:

something IS happening: BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights; liberty is being devoured by fear; cultures are drowning in oceans of bullshit; responsibility is being erased. Can we change any of that? No. But we can sure as hell make more people AWARE of it.

I'm not sure how or why those particular issues are dropped in here. They don't seem to be particularly Discordian to me.

Just about anything posted as an example of something we should focus on will be immediately neutralized by the "or maybe not" crowd. 

--But that's not a very pragmatic approach to getting shit done.


When I was at the Discordian gathering at esozone, Metaphorge was pushing this meme about a Vegan McDonald's opening up downtown. He repeated it like six or seven times before someone questioned him on it. Later, he confessed that it was hogwash (of course) but it's a funny and attractive lie he's trying to spread. And to that I said, "Cool, I can run with that."

Later, Telarus pointed out that that's one the good things about the Discordian society, is that we're willing to run with each other's jokes. I think what Vex is saying is that we don't have to come up with "Discordian Activities", (any discussion thereof will die on the table due to hard-wired ambiguity) we just have to support each other's energy.

Though all the things Vex listed there may or may not be "Discordian" (and frankly, I'm getting very about trying to pin down a mission statement that we all agree on), but I support it because they're good ideas.

Isn't THAT the point of the rant? That none of us can point specifically at Discordia, but the shit we do, (whether it's "Discordian" or not) IS Discordia.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

i'm terrible with examples, i guess. so sue me. i guess focus more on the "liberty is being devoured by fear" point. this isn't just your average bland altruism that i'm trying to talk about, it's that the character of our society is devolving to a point where nothing important matters at all. and it isn't just general, out-there stuff. if i live in a town where everyone is buckled down and repressed for fear of what might happen if they're not, that makes it more difficult for me to exercise my own inherent freedom, and that isn't okay with me.

i'm not really trying to save the human race, but it would be nice to foster an environment where real freedom isn't synonymous with danger, and where individual expression can be appreciated for what it is rather than abhorred for what people think it might be.

like it or not, we all have a personal stake in the larger society we live in. i don't think i can come to terms or accept the notion that Big Things just don't matter at all, because they effect me. and when the Big Things that are happening, happen because people are generally too unconscious to notice what's going on around them, and I do notice them, then what absolves me of a responsibility to draw their attention to it? It's like being on a bus when the driver has a heart attack and the rest of the passengers are asleep, then deciding it isn't my job to do something about it.

I don't give a fuck about saving the world, but god dammit, these apes are trying to take me down with them and I want to do what I can to stop them.

Oh I grok all that and I agree. I do think we should care about what's going on. I do share your concern that this shit is getting bad out here in the real world... I just don't think Discordia is necessarily the right tool for social change in those particular areas. Discordia seems to work great for individuals getting divorced from their Dogma... but society seems to need something far more than a mindfuck and a pretend secret society.

I just felt that it gave your overall excellent post the feel of the Yippie movement. I personally love the Yippies, they did some great stuff... I mean they had thousands of people attacking cultural institutions, pulling pranks, organizing protests and smoke-in's... and in the end, they get a footnote, or maybe a couple paragraphs in history, with the awesome picture of flower girls filling National Guard rifle barrels with flowers.

The pranks pulled by the Yippies were great, but their tie to the Causes, led to them being easily boxed in with the hippies, labeled and then forgotten. We'd get the same treatment, but have the labels post-modern or 'moral relativists' stamped on us.

So, if your Discordia needs to champion those causes, I'm cool with that, its your trip man. I suppose it just came up as a bad comparison in my head.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Cram is closer to my point than i am, embarrassingly.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Cram is closer to my point than i am, embarrassingly.

Piffle, what's to be embarrassed about tossing up two, count em, two great threads about the future of our Goddess Blessed Mess that is Discordia?

I suppose I'm way to picky about stuff like I stated here,

[Triple Zero]

with vex and cram's points combined, this thread gets DOUBLE MITTENS

(and some pickles for ratatosk..)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Good shit, Maynard.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

with vex and cram's points combined, this thread gets DOUBLE MITTENS

(and some pickles for ratatosk..)

dood a lee do dood a lee dood a lee dood a lee do

[Cramulus]

 

[wade]

This is full of WIn and I agree with all but this bit:

something IS happening: BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights; liberty is being devoured by fear; cultures are drowning in oceans of bullshit; responsibility is being erased. Can we change any of that? No. But we can sure as hell make more people AWARE of it.

I'm not sure how or why those particular issues are dropped in here. They don't seem to be particularly Discordian to me.

I think those expamles are excellent topics to focus a bit of energy on.   It could turn into tons of fun once some people have figured out a few interesting ways to raise attention on those subjects.

BILLIONS of people are being screwed out of their natural rights

ie. Raise a stink about how troublesome it is for some people to search through trash heaps because there are too many black bears.   fucking black bears think they own those trash heaps, , wtf are the bums supposed to survive on when they are threatened by black bears?  get people to sign petitions for safer trash heaps for bums...

this would cause people to think about animal rights, which would probably make some think about human rights..  but to what extent, I dont know.  ugh.....

[Eater of Clowns]

Vex I think you're very well shaping the language used in the discussion of this phenomenon.

This also reinforces that people can be Discordians and not ever have heard of them.