Karma, The Universal Soul and Satori...meh

[Iron Sulfide]

MOTHER FUCKER!

i jsut wrote a rant the size of kentucky, and my browser crapped out as
i was posting. usually when that happens, the post will make it, but my
browser will die...not this time...i'll reconstruct what i can or it and post
it later though....

arg! curses!! (by the way, the title of the thread was the same as this one,
so if you see another thread with this title, read that one...it might just not
have posted yet, or not have shown up on my browser for some shit
reason. if it doesn't, the reconstructed version'll be posted in this thread.
peace, i'm inside out.)

[Iron Sulfide]

here it is...not as good as the first rant, but basically the same...

for the record, this is indeed (k), post it wherever if you feel the urge,
just please don't publish it, i'm thinking of compiling a book of my
rants and random sayings, phrases, idioms etc...

(anyone out there want to co-compile and make sections of it?)

here it is...:

*******************************************

I think hugh would agree with me on at least a few of these things,Ķ

In attaining satori, I have realized some things. Things that have been said for a long time by people like tom robbins, timothy leary, bill hicks, and by countless others for thousands of years. Things that we once intuitively knew. More than knew, we intuitively understood.

,ÄúWe are all One; all things are but One; etc, etc,Ķ,Äù

We,Äôve all heard it, some of us have come to know it, others have taken to believing it, and a few even understand it: there are no opposites, there is no such thing as separation, all things are one.

From the most mundane aspect to a much higher sense of this notion, whether you base yourself in eastern or western schools of thought, it applies.

On the most mundane level we have the universe. Let,Äôs call the universe our unit. In this unit, there are galaxies; in these galaxies are solar systems; solar systems have planets and other satellites and on earth (and presumably other places as well), there are life. Plainly, if it exists, it is part of Existence. Fair enough? So, physically speaking, on the most basic level, all things are connected somehow, in that they all exist.

But there,Äôs more.

We are all made of the same stuff. The atoms that compose your body have existed for a googol years (1 with 100 zeros after it), give or take. And there,Äôs even evidence to suggest that genes retain memory (as well as cells and possibly atoms themselves. This initial experiment was of a rat that was run through a maze several times until he knew the way through quite well. Then they ground that rat up, fed it to another, and the rat finished the maze on the first try in record time,Ķbut anyways,Ķ)

So every atom in your body right now has been part of trillions of other things before it was part of you, and it retains (potentially) memory from being part of those things. In this way we can see that the present is based off of all that is part of the past, and that the future is the past generations, plus the present. We also see the potential for reincarnation, in a sense. A body dies, is decomposed, becomes fertilizer for plants, and those plants become food for animals, some of those animals become food for others, etc. and when you are born, you start off considerably small, and you develop through life, constantly adding other matter to your body to grow. Then one day you die, and it is passed on the same way.

And it keeps going,Ķ

This brings about the concept of dualism. A popular concept, except that it doesn,Äôt work. There are no opposites, it,Äôs ALL THE SAME. Chaos is order, life is death, love is hate, black is white. It,Äôs all the same, the only thing that differs is the details.

Now we,Äôre getting to the abstract.

If all things are the same, and all things are one, with no opposites,Ķthen there is no ,Äúmy soul,Äù and there is no ,Äúyour soul,Äù. There is only the Universal Soul that we all share, experiencing it through Subjective Being.

,Äúbut if everything is the same, how can subjectivity, or objectivity exist?,Äù I,Äôve heard asked. Well, it doesn,Äôt, per se, in the classical sense of objective vs. subjective. Reality is nether subjective nor objective. It is merely existence as a whole. As it,Äôs mentioned in the principia discordia, people try to view reality through a grid of lines, trying to make reality nice and neat and map-able. But reality is nothing but the all inclusive vastness of that which exists- Existence. ,Äúsubjective,Äù reality is nothing more than the grid we each personally use to try and view this whole, but we can,Äôt possibly ever view the entire thing at one time. But as flawed and limited as our personal view of the universe may be, it ultimately is part of the whole, part of reality itself.

The whole opposites thing is like this: people see a coin, and on one side are all the things that people consider ,Äúpositive,Äù, and on the other are all the things people consider ,Äúnegative,Äù,Ķ.the things people can,Äôt seem to place as positive or negative get called neutral,Ķthose are the ridges on the side of the coin. But people forget that the coin isn,Äôt these three separate parts, it,Äôs ONE COIN.

More over, there is no coin to begin with. People see a coin because they have no DEPTH PRECEPTION (we,Äôre in metaphor land now, by the way,Ķ) there is no coin, there,Äôs a sphere, but people only look with one eye, even if they get the notion that there,Äôs one coin, not three separate parts. When the truly enlightened people said ,Äúopen your eyes,,Äù they never thought that they,Äôd have to specify ,Äúopen BOTH of your eyes!!!,Äù


And here,Äôs part of the point I,Äôm trying to make.

KARMA is REAL. But pull it together, now, man,Ķkarma is NOT a fucking point system. It,Äôs not that if you do good things, good things will happen, and likewise for bad things. Karma is quite immediate, but it also has time delayed long term effects.

Let,Äôs use something current and relevant. Firstly American soldiers should not have been/be abusing Iraqi prisoners. Fair enough? Let,Äôs take it a step further. American soldiers should not be in iraq, in fact there should be no ,Äúwar against iraq.,Äù And Islamic fundies, in turn, should not have suicide bombed us on 9-11. in turn, America shouldn,Äôt have raped Afghanistan, iraq, and all those other oil countries for years and years over oil and the such using occupations, bombings, etc,Ķover the years.

Back to the present, the immediate effects of generating negative karma are that who you generate it against is negatively effected. If you generate negative karma, though, you are also negatively effected; you are effectively depreciating your Subjective Being,Äôs experience of the Universal Soul. The long term effects are that you perpetuate that negative karma. This is an important part. Ever notice that on large scales, negative karma is almost exclusively perpetrated against the kind of people that are likely to perpetuate it themselves? Why is this?

Simply put, misery loves company. There are the rare cases where negative karma is generated towards those who will not perpetuate it, but it always proves futile, and is eventually ceased. Take ghandi, for example. A truly enlightened man. He saw the Universal Soul, and knew that fighting agaist the british would only perpetuate the negative Karma they were trying to generate, and in turn depreciate his and their experience of the Universal Soul. And did it work? Well, let,Äôs open our history books and find out,Ķwow, it DID work!!! By not perpetuating the negative karma, the source of the negative karma backed down and STOPPED generating it, because retaliation wouldn,Äôt happen in this case, ever.

Now, it works the other way with positive karma. You have the immediate and long term effects. A great example of this can be found at http://www.generosity.org . (I nominate them as part of the OM)

You generate positive karma towards someone, and the immediate effects are that you feel good, and the person that your generate it towards feels good as well. Making you likely to perpetuate the karma, as well as the other person to perpetuate it. Like a ripple.

,Äúhow can positive and negative karma exist though, if all things are the same and there are no opposites?,Äù GOD DAMMIT! People who ask this display only one thing: they still don,Äôt have a cunt hair worth of understanding. It,Äôs not enough to know this shit, you have to understand it too.

Negative and positive karma are the SAME THING. The only thing that,Äôs different between them are the details. Both are Karma, the question is what way are you going to generate karma (since you always generate karma)?

Whether you accept the higher sense of the metaphysical ,ÄúAll are one,Äù notion, or only the basic mundane principal of existencial connectivity, you can,Äôt deny the fact that we are all connected and that all actions effect everyone, including your actions, including yourself.

THINK ABOUT IT!

[Bella]

Wow, no wonder you were upset when your computer ate this rant yesterday. It's amazingly along the lines of what Demonica and I were discussing last night. We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls. And also the fact that everything is alive in the sense that it is made from the same basic material that comprises our own bodies.

Your ideas on Karma are also very interesting. I have to study this some more, but it's great. Thank you for sharing.

[mobbing]

Rudolph Steiner said that the earth (or universe) is now in his third manifestation as matter.
between those stages was just potentional matter. and after every step we made some progress.
first there was just energy/potential matter then it came into being. in this stage it was nothing more than matter, like a stone.
you can't imagine those earlier stages, because you are a part of one. so this was not matter as you can experience it nowdays.
in this stage of dead matter there were some ghost-like beings around us (they did countless stages before us) and they gave us live.
the next stage begins. there is live as the plants have live. they got the (how Steiner calls it) ether-body that keeps them alive.
next stage the asthral-body is added to it. the the form of living is now animal-like
and then the ego is added in the next stage and there we are: human beings

I don't really agree with im about the animal and human part but his books are really worth reading
I just thought of this as I read the part about the memory of atoms.

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

here it is...not as good as the first rant, but basically the same...

for the record, this is indeed (k), post it wherever if you feel the urge,
just please don't publish it, i'm thinking of compiling a book of my
rants and random sayings, phrases, idioms etc...

(anyone out there want to co-compile and make sections of it?)

here it is...:

*******************************************

I think hugh would agree with me on at least a few of these things,Ķ

In attaining satori, I have realized some things. Things that have been said for a long time by people like tom robbins, timothy leary, bill hicks, and by countless others for thousands of years. Things that we once intuitively knew. More than knew, we intuitively understood.

,ÄúWe are all One; all things are but One; etc, etc,Ķ,Äù

We,Äôve all heard it, some of us have come to know it, others have taken to believing it, and a few even understand it: there are no opposites, there is no such thing as separation, all things are one.

From the most mundane aspect to a much higher sense of this notion, whether you base yourself in eastern or western schools of thought, it applies.

On the most mundane level we have the universe. Let,Äôs call the universe our unit. In this unit, there are galaxies; in these galaxies are solar systems; solar systems have planets and other satellites and on earth (and presumably other places as well), there are life. Plainly, if it exists, it is part of Existence. Fair enough? So, physically speaking, on the most basic level, all things are connected somehow, in that they all exist.

But there,Äôs more.

We are all made of the same stuff. The atoms that compose your body have existed for a googol years (1 with 100 zeros after it), give or take. And there,Äôs even evidence to suggest that genes retain memory (as well as cells and possibly atoms themselves. This initial experiment was of a rat that was run through a maze several times until he knew the way through quite well. Then they ground that rat up, fed it to another, and the rat finished the maze on the first try in record time,Ķbut anyways,Ķ)

So every atom in your body right now has been part of trillions of other things before it was part of you, and it retains (potentially) memory from being part of those things. In this way we can see that the present is based off of all that is part of the past, and that the future is the past generations, plus the present. We also see the potential for reincarnation, in a sense. A body dies, is decomposed, becomes fertilizer for plants, and those plants become food for animals, some of those animals become food for others, etc. and when you are born, you start off considerably small, and you develop through life, constantly adding other matter to your body to grow. Then one day you die, and it is passed on the same way.

And it keeps going,Ķ

This brings about the concept of dualism. A popular concept, except that it doesn,Äôt work. There are no opposites, it,Äôs ALL THE SAME. Chaos is order, life is death, love is hate, black is white. It,Äôs all the same, the only thing that differs is the details.

Now we,Äôre getting to the abstract.

If all things are the same, and all things are one, with no opposites,Ķthen there is no ,Äúmy soul,Äù and there is no ,Äúyour soul,Äù. There is only the Universal Soul that we all share, experiencing it through Subjective Being.

,Äúbut if everything is the same, how can subjectivity, or objectivity exist?,Äù I,Äôve heard asked. Well, it doesn,Äôt, per se, in the classical sense of objective vs. subjective. Reality is nether subjective nor objective. It is merely existence as a whole. As it,Äôs mentioned in the principia discordia, people try to view reality through a grid of lines, trying to make reality nice and neat and map-able. But reality is nothing but the all inclusive vastness of that which exists- Existence. ,Äúsubjective,Äù reality is nothing more than the grid we each personally use to try and view this whole, but we can,Äôt possibly ever view the entire thing at one time. But as flawed and limited as our personal view of the universe may be, it ultimately is part of the whole, part of reality itself.

The whole opposites thing is like this: people see a coin, and on one side are all the things that people consider ,Äúpositive,Äù, and on the other are all the things people consider ,Äúnegative,Äù,Ķ.the things people can,Äôt seem to place as positive or negative get called neutral,Ķthose are the ridges on the side of the coin. But people forget that the coin isn,Äôt these three separate parts, it,Äôs ONE COIN.

More over, there is no coin to begin with. People see a coin because they have no DEPTH PRECEPTION (we,Äôre in metaphor land now, by the way,Ķ) there is no coin, there,Äôs a sphere, but people only look with one eye, even if they get the notion that there,Äôs one coin, not three separate parts. When the truly enlightened people said ,Äúopen your eyes,,Äù they never thought that they,Äôd have to specify ,Äúopen BOTH of your eyes!!!,Äù


And here,Äôs part of the point I,Äôm trying to make.

KARMA is REAL. But pull it together, now, man,Ķkarma is NOT a fucking point system. It,Äôs not that if you do good things, good things will happen, and likewise for bad things. Karma is quite immediate, but it also has time delayed long term effects.

Let,Äôs use something current and relevant. Firstly American soldiers should not have been/be abusing Iraqi prisoners. Fair enough? Let,Äôs take it a step further. American soldiers should not be in iraq, in fact there should be no ,Äúwar against iraq.,Äù And Islamic fundies, in turn, should not have suicide bombed us on 9-11. in turn, America shouldn,Äôt have raped Afghanistan, iraq, and all those other oil countries for years and years over oil and the such using occupations, bombings, etc,Ķover the years.

Back to the present, the immediate effects of generating negative karma are that who you generate it against is negatively effected. If you generate negative karma, though, you are also negatively effected; you are effectively depreciating your Subjective Being,Äôs experience of the Universal Soul. The long term effects are that you perpetuate that negative karma. This is an important part. Ever notice that on large scales, negative karma is almost exclusively perpetrated against the kind of people that are likely to perpetuate it themselves? Why is this?

Simply put, misery loves company. There are the rare cases where negative karma is generated towards those who will not perpetuate it, but it always proves futile, and is eventually ceased. Take ghandi, for example. A truly enlightened man. He saw the Universal Soul, and knew that fighting agaist the british would only perpetuate the negative Karma they were trying to generate, and in turn depreciate his and their experience of the Universal Soul. And did it work? Well, let,Äôs open our history books and find out,Ķwow, it DID work!!! By not perpetuating the negative karma, the source of the negative karma backed down and STOPPED generating it, because retaliation wouldn,Äôt happen in this case, ever.

Now, it works the other way with positive karma. You have the immediate and long term effects. A great example of this can be found at http://www.generosity.org . (I nominate them as part of the OM)

You generate positive karma towards someone, and the immediate effects are that you feel good, and the person that your generate it towards feels good as well. Making you likely to perpetuate the karma, as well as the other person to perpetuate it. Like a ripple.

,Äúhow can positive and negative karma exist though, if all things are the same and there are no opposites?,Äù GOD DAMMIT! People who ask this display only one thing: they still don,Äôt have a cunt hair worth of understanding. It,Äôs not enough to know this shit, you have to understand it too.

Negative and positive karma are the SAME THING. The only thing that,Äôs different between them are the details. Both are Karma, the question is what way are you going to generate karma (since you always generate karma)?

Whether you accept the higher sense of the metaphysical ,ÄúAll are one,Äù notion, or only the basic mundane principal of existencial connectivity, you can,Äôt deny the fact that we are all connected and that all actions effect everyone, including your actions, including yourself.

THINK ABOUT IT!

I concur!

[Guido Finucci]

::resists the urge to quote the whole damn thing again just to say, "Me three!"::

[The Good Reverend Roger]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

Maybe....................

unless they are soul-less holographic images occupying space and they
somehow slipped off the holographic image track.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

Maybe....................

unless they are soul-less holographic images occupying space and they
somehow slipped off the holographic image track.

Hah!  You should BE so lucky!

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

I hope I'm so lucky.  

They don't sound like fun, but you could get rich from the script
for the sitcom.

or have hidden camera's and have your own reality
t.v. show..............

[Iron Sulfide]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

yeah, but the more negative karma the person produces, and the
more intense the negative karma, the less they retain the aspect of the
universal soul. that's why people like ted bundy seem so soulless, they've
squandered their ability to actualize their subjective interpretation of
the universal soul (look at me, on a soap box preachin'....tsk tsk on me)

[Demonica, Oracle of Doom]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

yeah, but the more negative karma the person produces, and the
more intense the negative karma, the less they retain the aspect of the
universal soul. that's why people like ted bundy seem so soulless, they've
squandered their ability to actualize their subjective interpretation of
the universal soul (look at me, on a soap box preachin'....tsk tsk on me)

I believe that's so true, at least in this dimension.  I do believe there are
other dimensions that are less dense materially than this one
and the laws of karma are not the same.

I'm a citizen of that other dimension where lots of extra, free money
shows up in my checking account every day.    

[mobbing]

We were talking about the likelihood of a universal soul, rather than seperate and individual souls.

What a perfectly hideous notion.

A universal soul that we are all tiny droplets of............or
maybe each of our cells have a soul and we are each a universe of sorts
what is a soul really, I'm not sure I know

I like hideous notions!

Of course, that means you share a soul with Crazy Steve, Millie, Bud, Nazi Ray, and even Susan.

Ugh.

even if I share an universal soul with those people, if they are the opposit of me they might be the only reason I am alive.