Plus, I Got Religion

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This isn't finished, but it's as much as I feel like writing right now.


I don't talk about my religion much. For one thing, I don't want to have to explain it... it's complicated. For another thing, I don't relish getting caught in the explain/justify/defend cycle that happens so often, especially when talking to a social group that is rich in devout atheists. I find that in situations like that, atheists become evangelistic, as if they're on a mission to pry religion from every mind they encounter. I don't like the judgment, the condemnation, or the derision – it's easier to never bring it up at all, and let them assume that I'm one of their fold.

One of the reasons I don't like being in a position where I'm asked to defend my religion is because I find that religion is indefensible. It's not logical; more like humor than it is like love, it defies being pinned down with algorithms and intellectualism. Much of what is funny is subjective, makes no sense, and cannot be predicted, and to me, that's what religion is like. Not only can I not explain or justify why I have it, I don't even care to try. No, really. I don't. It's not something I take great comfort in, because I'm not a believer in a benevolent god. It's just something I have faith in... faith, which cannot be logically defended. Something pretty absurd. You either get it or you don't.

Friends confronted with the fact that I have religion are often disbelieving, then derisive. "You don't really believe in that, do you? I mean, you don't believe that it's really for real real, right?"

Truth?

Sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes it's metaphor, sometimes it's an exercise of the mind, and sometimes it's really for real real, something that came with me from my ancestors. Something so pants-wettingly old that I'd be seriously disrespecting my ancestors if I thumbed my nose at believing in it. It's as real as their existences, as their bone fragments littering the desert in Jerome and their skeletons being slowly permeated by minerals in Conwy, Echota, and Mombasa. If I imagine something, does it exist? Well... of course! Sort of.

The simplest way for me to explain why I have religion is to say that it's because I've decided to. I like it.

Fuck you, Kai.

[rong]

"some things are so serious, they can only be joked about." -Neils Bohr

[Faithless]

If a thing is real for you, then that is enough. Don't let others bug you.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

If a thing is real for you, then that is enough. Don't let others bug you undermine your Toof Faerie.

And, fixed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If a thing is real for you, then that is enough. Don't let others bug you.

It's not so much that others bug me, personally, as that I'm getting the growing sense that this particular corner of Discordia is becoming increasingly closed to those of us who do have religion; the spiritual and the religious, whether reverently or irreverently so. How many people here will confess to being spiritual or religious, in the face of being mocked by their atheism-embracing peers? I know several who are privately spiritual... yet religion-baiting is a popular sport here, and I take part in it too. I don't despise religion, though, or the religious, even though I may be eccentric in the way I practice mine. I despise evangelism and fundamentalism in almost all aspects, for the way the practitioners of those try to impose their irrational, indefensible beliefs on others.

Like I said in another thread, I don't want to see PD.com Discordianism turn into Pastafarianism. I like the St. Maes of Discord, and I think it would be pretty sad if people like she or I or some of the others I know felt marginalized here. Well, some of them already do.

Anyway. If this is the corner of the Web designated for Atheist Discordians, that's all well and good. I'll take my ball and go to another playground. But if it's not, I'll stick around, and I'm going to stop keeping my mouth shut and going with the flow when it comes to taking blanket jabs at other people's religion.

[East Coast Hustle]

I understand what you're saying, but I can't get around the problem of religion just being a mind-bendingly stupid concept.

on the other hand, I get the feeling that alot of people here are using the word "religion" when what they mean is "grid that I sometimes impose because I enjoy it and find it occasionally useful in my pursuit of higher understanding of the universe and human nature but which I realize deep-down is nothing more than a grid".

I mean, if it's a religion, that means that you literally believe in divine supernatural entities.

[OPTIMUS PINECONE]

     I once had a good friend, who told me, early on in his Fatherhood he'd let his daughter know there is no god, and I was bummed. I understood he was a militant no-godder, but I thought it was lame to snub out a kids potential like that. My first thought was, how can anyone look at the physical world and not feel that there's more going on than  what's covered in 'science monthly'? Call it what you want, nature and it's predecessors rock. Being open to that and applying what comes to you as you go ought always to be an option. As much as established "religion" (i.e. Catholicism, Buddhism) is annoying, Atheists are fucking lame.

    My brother also told his kids there is no Santa, because he's some kind of neo-Christian. Again, I had to think - just because "you people" tried to severe all ties between man and the cosmos way back when?!...

    'C'mon! OR KILL ME!

[Kai]

I understand what you're saying, but I can't get around the problem of religion just being a mind-bendingly stupid concept.

on the other hand, I get the feeling that alot of people here are using the word "religion" when what they mean is "grid that I sometimes impose because I enjoy it and find it occasionally useful in my pursuit of higher understanding of the universe and human nature but which I realize deep-down is nothing more than a grid".

I mean, if it's a religion, that means that you literally believe in divine supernatural entities.

Would you consider classical Theravada Buddhism a religion?

[Requia ☣]

I've never really seen this place as a militant atheist outpost.  I think its only maybe half atheist, and the attacks tend to be directed more at orthodoxy.

[Tempest Virago]

    I once had a good friend, who told me, early on in his Fatherhood he'd let his daughter know there is no god, and I was bummed. I understood he was a militant no-godder, but I thought it was lame to snub out a kids potential like that. My first thought was, how can anyone look at the physical world and not feel that there's more going on than  what's covered in 'science monthly'? Call it what you want, nature and it's predecessors rock. Being open to that and applying what comes to you as you go ought always to be an option. As much as established "religion" (i.e. Catholicism, Buddhism) is annoying, Atheists are fucking lame.

    My brother also told his kids there is no Santa, because he's some kind of neo-Christian. Again, I had to think - just because "you people" tried to severe all ties between man and the cosmos way back when?!...

    'C'mon! OR KILL ME!

I grew up not believing in God or Santa Claus, and I don't feel like my potential was snubbed at all. Anyway, it's not like I didn't make up my own stuff to believe in - I had a very active imagination. In fact, you could argue that I was more imaginative because I was forced to be creative in my make-believe.

Anyway, I try not to talk about my thoughts on religion, largely out of fear of making people feel like Nigel does. I don't want to make anybody feel judged or defensive.

[Thurnez Isa]

If I ever have kids Im going to tell them that there is a God... and the fucker is out to destroy everything they hold dear, so you better all learn to fight back

lets not even go into what Im going to tell them about "Santa Claws"

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Atheists are the world's dumbest optimists.

Yes, there is a God.  God demands your worship.  Why?  Because he eats it.  If a God doesn't get prayer, it dies (which is why the Greek gods aren't still turning into bulls and fucking young ladies).  The main course, of course, happens when you die, and God eats your soul. 

The REAL joke is on the atheists, of course.  Since no god eats them, they just turn into this pathetic corpse that shuffles in to the office/shop/kitchen every day, forever.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I just don't feel the need to discuss my spirituality publicly.

And if something came over me to do so on a board full of asshats it would be ridiculous to think that they would suddenly take their hat off and hold their bowels.



If one doesn't like something made with intent then it's called propaganda, evangelism, or artless.

If one does like something made with intent then it's called information, education, or art.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I just don't feel the need to discuss my spirituality publicly.

And if something came over me to do so on a board full of asshats it would be ridiculous to think that they would suddenly take their hat off and hold their bowels.



If one doesn't like something made with intent then it's called propaganda, evangelism, or artless.

If one does like something made with intent then it's called information, education, or art.

Sure.  I mean, if words don't mean anything.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I just don't feel the need to discuss my spirituality publicly.

And if something came over me to do so on a board full of asshats it would be ridiculous to think that they would suddenly take their hat off and hold their bowels.



If one doesn't like something made with intent then it's called propaganda, evangelism, or artless.

If one does like something made with intent then it's called information, education, or art.

Sure.  I mean, if words don't mean anything.

People mean things. Words are arbitrary symbols of sounds.