Financial fuckery thread

[Faust]

Yes.

Somehow, I don't see Left Euro-scepticism gaining ground in such a climate.

Also, is it just me, or is the media really glossing over how the Greek top military brass all got fired just before the referendum was announced?  I mean, it may have been a simply pre-emptive measure...but that's a very serious step to take, regardless.  Were there rumours of a coup being planned? 

Holy shit. That is actually a really really good sign, lets hope they stay gone. This wasn't reported on any of the news feeds I follow.

[BabylonHoruv]

Yes.

Somehow, I don't see Left Euro-scepticism gaining ground in such a climate.

Also, is it just me, or is the media really glossing over how the Greek top military brass all got fired just before the referendum was announced?  I mean, it may have been a simply pre-emptive measure...but that's a very serious step to take, regardless.  Were there rumours of a coup being planned? 

Holy shit. That is actually a really really good sign, lets hope they stay gone. This wasn't reported on any of the news feeds I follow.

I found it on global guerrillas, but the article in the Athens times that was linked from there has been pulled.

[Cain]

A google news search for "Greek military coup 2011" comes up with a disturbing number of articles.

However, it seems things have changed overnight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulias immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm.

Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.

The bailout would give the heavily indebted Greek government 130bn euros (£111bn; $178bn) and a 50% write-off of its debts, in return for deeply unpopular austerity measures.

On Thursday, main opposition leader Antonis Samaras of the centre-right New Democracy party called for a caretaker government to safeguard the EU deal.
Shadow over G20

Mr Papandreou had called a vote of confidence for Friday. His Pasok party holds a slim majority, 152 out of 300 seats.

However, he was faced with a parliamentary revolt after several of his MPs withheld their backing. Some called for early elections or a government of national unity instead.

One Pasok rebel MP, Eva Kaili, told the BBC: ''I think now the only solution is to have a new government of national rescue and co-operation led by a person that is recognised by the majority [as] prime minister and tries to uphold the agreement [on the EU bailout] of 26 October."

The row threatens to overshadow a meeting of the G20 in Cannes, where leading industrialised nations are to discuss the eurozone debt crisis.

Mr Papandreou told reporters in Cannes his referendum would in effect be a vote on whether Greece should remain in the euro.

But the European Commission said if Greece left the European single currency, it would have to leave the European Union as well.

Taking away the possibility of referendum via parliamentary revolt may well be worse than had they just never mentioned it in the first place.

[Faust]

A google news search for "Greek military coup 2011" comes up with a disturbing number of articles.

However, it seems things have changed overnight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulias immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm.

Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.

The bailout would give the heavily indebted Greek government 130bn euros (£111bn; $178bn) and a 50% write-off of its debts, in return for deeply unpopular austerity measures.

On Thursday, main opposition leader Antonis Samaras of the centre-right New Democracy party called for a caretaker government to safeguard the EU deal.
Shadow over G20

Mr Papandreou had called a vote of confidence for Friday. His Pasok party holds a slim majority, 152 out of 300 seats.

However, he was faced with a parliamentary revolt after several of his MPs withheld their backing. Some called for early elections or a government of national unity instead.

One Pasok rebel MP, Eva Kaili, told the BBC: ''I think now the only solution is to have a new government of national rescue and co-operation led by a person that is recognised by the majority [as] prime minister and tries to uphold the agreement [on the EU bailout] of 26 October."

The row threatens to overshadow a meeting of the G20 in Cannes, where leading industrialised nations are to discuss the eurozone debt crisis.

Mr Papandreou told reporters in Cannes his referendum would in effect be a vote on whether Greece should remain in the euro.

But the European Commission said if Greece left the European single currency, it would have to leave the European Union as well.

Taking away the possibility of referendum via parliamentary revolt may well be worse than had they just never mentioned it in the first place.

That depends entirely on who is at the helm. Oh christ, this could be the tipping point not just for a coup or default but full on civil war.

[Cain]

Looks like the BBC got played

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

Greek PM George Papandreou is facing calls from senior members of his own party to resign, amid uncertainty about a eurozone bailout deal.

Four ministers, including influential Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos, said they opposed Mr Papandreou's plan to hold a referendum on the EU deal.

Earlier the BBC reported that the PM was preparing to resign but state TV said he had ruled this out.

So, question is: who leaked that he was to the BBC?  And was it leaked because it was genuinely thought to be an option, or because it was felt it would add pressure to the calls for resignation?

No surprise to see New Democracy are offering coalition government, but only with Papandreou out of the picture.

[Cain]

Referendum has been shelved.

PASOK's finance minister is quickly emerging as one of the key players in all of this.  If Papandreou falls, expect him to take charge, in one sense or another.

[Cain]

Calling it now.  Papendreou fails the confidence vote, Evangelos Venizelos is made the leader of Pasok, he gives in to the New Democracy calls for a snap election.

[Cain]

Yes.

Somehow, I don't see Left Euro-scepticism gaining ground in such a climate.

Also, is it just me, or is the media really glossing over how the Greek top military brass all got fired just before the referendum was announced?  I mean, it may have been a simply pre-emptive measure...but that's a very serious step to take, regardless.  Were there rumours of a coup being planned? 

Holy shit. That is actually a really really good sign, lets hope they stay gone. This wasn't reported on any of the news feeds I follow.

Bump to remind everyone WE POTENTIALLY HAD A MILITARY COUP PLANNED FOR A FIRST WORLD NATION.

But, you know, I'm sure there are more important things to discuss than a possible military coup planned to further the benefits of the Eurozone and global financial elites agendas, and what that reveals about how dangerous things are getting and who the main players might be.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yes.

Somehow, I don't see Left Euro-scepticism gaining ground in such a climate.

Also, is it just me, or is the media really glossing over how the Greek top military brass all got fired just before the referendum was announced?  I mean, it may have been a simply pre-emptive measure...but that's a very serious step to take, regardless.  Were there rumours of a coup being planned? 

Holy shit. That is actually a really really good sign, lets hope they stay gone. This wasn't reported on any of the news feeds I follow.

Bump to remind everyone WE POTENTIALLY HAD A MILITARY COUP PLANNED FOR A FIRST WORLD NATION.

But, you know, I'm sure there are more important things to discuss than a possible military coup planned to further the benefits of the Eurozone and global financial elites agendas, and what that reveals about how dangerous things are getting and who the main players might be.

I always kind of lumped Greece in with Argentina.  You know, they pretty much schedule this sort of thing. 

And frankly, I don't see the situation there doing anything but degrading, because the players won't allow it to improve.

[Cain]

Greece is also the country where there has been the most opposition to austerity measures in the western world, aside from Iceland (which has no military in the first place).

While Greece does have a more recent history of military rule than most of Europe, it says to me that military juntas are not being ruled out as an option.  In Italy, the military made up part of the parallel governmental structure that ruled during the Cold War.  And Spain and Portugal both had fascist governments in the 1970s.  Ignoring Ireland, that means most of the PIIGS are nations where there is still a history of autocratic rule, and people who grew up and served that system still have access to mechanisms of power.

What if resistance to austerity measures reaches Greek levels in France, or the UK?  Or even, though highly unlikely, in the USA itself?  A few more Oaklands could be enough to set people off, and god knows the police there are militarized enough to carry them out.

We're entering a whole new and dangerous phase here.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Greece is also the country where there has been the most opposition to austerity measures in the western world, aside from Iceland (which has no military in the first place).

While Greece does have a more recent history of military rule than most of Europe, it says to me that military juntas are not being ruled out as an option.  In Italy, the military made up part of the parallel governmental structure that ruled during the Cold War.  And Spain and Portugal both had fascist governments in the 1970s.  Ignoring Ireland, that means most of the PIIGS are nations where there is still a history of autocratic rule, and people who grew up and served that system still have access to mechanisms of power.

What if resistance to austerity measures reaches Greek levels in France, or the UK?  Or even, though highly unlikely, in the USA itself?  A few more Oaklands could be enough to set people off, and god knows the police there are militarized enough to carry them out.

We're entering a whole new and dangerous phase here.

Yep.  But they're gonna fuck us all anyway, Cain.  At least in places like Oakland and Athens, people are trying to get a few licks in first.

[Triple Zero]

Greece is also the country where there has been the most opposition to austerity measures in the western world, aside from Iceland (which has no military in the first place).

While Greece does have a more recent history of military rule than most of Europe, it says to me that military juntas are not being ruled out as an option.  In Italy, the military made up part of the parallel governmental structure that ruled during the Cold War.  And Spain and Portugal both had fascist governments in the 1970s.  Ignoring Ireland, that means most of the PIIGS are nations where there is still a history of autocratic rule, and people who grew up and served that system still have access to mechanisms of power.

What if resistance to austerity measures reaches Greek levels in France, or the UK?  Or even, though highly unlikely, in the USA itself?  A few more Oaklands could be enough to set people off, and god knows the police there are militarized enough to carry them out.

We're entering a whole new and dangerous phase here.

So, what does that mean exactly? Totalitarian police states everywhere? Or violent civil wars that may end up god knows where or how?

Or something different completely, sorry if it's a stupid question but to me this is very complex matters.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Greece is also the country where there has been the most opposition to austerity measures in the western world, aside from Iceland (which has no military in the first place).

While Greece does have a more recent history of military rule than most of Europe, it says to me that military juntas are not being ruled out as an option.  In Italy, the military made up part of the parallel governmental structure that ruled during the Cold War.  And Spain and Portugal both had fascist governments in the 1970s.  Ignoring Ireland, that means most of the PIIGS are nations where there is still a history of autocratic rule, and people who grew up and served that system still have access to mechanisms of power.

What if resistance to austerity measures reaches Greek levels in France, or the UK?  Or even, though highly unlikely, in the USA itself?  A few more Oaklands could be enough to set people off, and god knows the police there are militarized enough to carry them out.

We're entering a whole new and dangerous phase here.

So, what does that mean exactly? Totalitarian police states everywhere? Or violent civil wars that may end up god knows where or how?

Or something different completely, sorry if it's a stupid question but to me this is very complex matters.

Yeah, but not like your granddaddy's totalitarian states.  There's no ideology here, Trip, no grand evil plan to make the world a better place.

It's basically what I've been screeching about in the Coney Island thing.  The mob runs everything there, and a classier mob is doing the same thing to the world in general.

[Cain]

Yeah.

The way I see it, the threat of the military coup will be sufficient in most places.  Some people would be surprised that Papendreou, in this case, had the balls to pre-empt any attempt, but then you look at his father and his grandfather and that conclusion becomes a lot less certain.  We'll see a lot more Operation Piano Solo's in our future.  Note the bottom part:

The Financial Times posed the possibility that the paper coup was simply used as a way to sway coalition talks between the Christian Democrats and Socialists. President Antonio Segni was apparently running out of patience with the demands from Pietro Nenni.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if that turned into an actual military junta in a couple of places, the better to encourage the others.

As popular opinion turns against the banks and unemployment continues, expect a general radicalization of politics.  And expect this as the response.

[Cain]

Also, amazingly, Papendreou survived the vote of no-confidence.  I guess a few people realized more political instability now would be very, very bad.