Financial fuckery thread

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

They tried something like the Ithaca Hours in Lawrence KS about ten or so years ago; I cannot remember what it was called.  I think the argument for it, aside from being a "hip" kind of thing to do, was to keep more money in the local economy.  It failed miserably, as I recall.

I do wish I had one of the three-dollar bills - it had William Burroughs on it.

Local companion currencies CAN be a good thing for a local economy, as long as everyone in the area has to accept them, including landlords and utility companies, and as long as they are regulated to prevent wild inflation.

There is to this day some alternative local currency floating around Oregon, but since it's all strictly voluntary only hippies accept it, making it essentially worthless for most of us.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The problem with alternative currencies is that at the end of the day, it's still just a virtual representation of goods or services. Exchanging one for the other has no benefit that I can think of.

It takes control of the printing press away from the government.

Oh wow I really reallly want you to follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion.

NIGEL:  RUINING UTOPIAN DREAMS FOR YOU.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The problem with alternative currencies is that at the end of the day, it's still just a virtual representation of goods or services. Exchanging one for the other has no benefit that I can think of.

It takes control of the printing press away from the government.

Oh wow I really reallly want you to follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion.

NIGEL:  RUINING UTOPIAN DREAMS FOR YOU.

  The idea of all these little municipalities being their own independent economies with their own currencies...

WHOOO DOGGIES! LET THE FUN BEGIN! 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The problem with alternative currencies is that at the end of the day, it's still just a virtual representation of goods or services. Exchanging one for the other has no benefit that I can think of.

It takes control of the printing press away from the government.

Oh wow I really reallly want you to follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion.

NIGEL:  RUINING UTOPIAN DREAMS FOR YOU.

  The idea of all these little municipalities being their own independent economies with their own currencies...

WHOOO DOGGIES! LET THE FUN BEGIN! 

BUT IT WORKED SO WELL UNDER THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION!

Oh, wait, it didn't.  It failed miserably.  But we're SMARTER and BETTER than THEY were, and they just didn't try HARD enough, and couldn't make people PURE enough to PLAY ALONG.

But we CAN do that now.  Oh, my, yes.  All it takes is some bully boys with rubber truncheons, and our utopia will be PERFECT. 

I CAN ALREADY HEAR THE JACKBOOTS ON THE STAIRS!  HOORAY!

[LMNO]

I'm gonna invest in wheelbarrows, to carry all the currency when getting a cup of coffee.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm gonna invest in wheelbarrows, to carry all the currency when getting a cup of coffee.

See?  This is what I'm talking about.  There's always some smartass that won't play along.

So we need to make our Perfect State™ perfect, and you can't make an omelet without cracking some skulls.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Buying alternative currency that only works at certain places is probably like buying food stamps, only legal. It's only worth doing if you get double your money.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

DIDN'T WORK BEFORE?

TRY DOING IT HARDER.

[Reginald Ret]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/sep/23/local-currencies-german-chiemgauer

What makes the chiemgauer different to conventional currency is that it automatically loses value if you don't spend it. Unlike traditional money that can be saved, the chiemgauer is only valid for three months – the idea being that it must be spent, thereby boosting the local economy. If the notes aren't spent, they can be renewed by buying a stamp that costs 2% of the note's face value – so over a year, the currency depreciates 8%. Notes can be renewed up to seven times.

[Elder Iptuous]

sounds similar to the Worgl scrip that was successfully used in another german town during the depression which i mentioned a while back in the thread.

[Junkenstein]

So the "successful" attempts seem to all share the need for inbuilt depreciation. Interesting to note that the UK is currently playing with the idea of negative interest (Unlikely to ever happen. Daily Heil and co will pull the "punishing savers" card) but this has been seen in the EU.

Which leads to: What happens when you can no longer earn currency? Versions of Welfare/Aid could be difficult with this, as the impact would be felt more at the local level. There seems to be an assumption that the economy it is introduced to is self contained and can provide all required services to sustain it. So it's basically only useful in isolated communities and for limited things. Which are self sustaining.

There's plenty of them around I guess.

[Elder Iptuous]

if the problem is too low a velocity of the money, then yeah, it appears the inbuilt depreciation is beneficial.
what do you mean by 'when you can no longer earn currency'?

[Junkenstein]

Old age/illness/etc. Take your pick, but there's a dozen situations you could name where working a XX hour week becomes impossible.

[Elder Iptuous]

Old age/illness/etc. Take your pick, but there's a dozen situations you could name where working a XX hour week becomes impossible.

ahh. ok. gotcha.
i don't think a demuraged scrip like this is put forward as a good idea for a sustained currency or sole currency by anyone...
it's just seems to be a good remedy for when the commerce in an area grinds to a halt and some grease is needed.
it sure isn't a good medium for savings, obviously, which you can't simply ignore the need for.

[Pergamos]

I googled Ithaca Hours.

The local currency in Ithaca, N.Y., is called "Ithaca Hours." They are bought with U.S. dollars and can be traded with local shops for products or services.

Any currency can be purchased with US dollars.