Heh, Gone Viral Yet?

[LMNO]

Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses.  It just doesn't really explain it.

Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead.  It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.

Incorrect.  The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.

That is all.

I'm not sure how this differs from what I said.  Our math can't predict which it is, so we have to look.   This doesn't put the cat in some "middle state" of dealivead that suddenly shifts to "alive" or "dead" through the act of our observing.

Quantum theory appears to be saying that until the box is opened the cat is in a smeared-out state, a superposition of possibilities, in this case half dead and half alive. Your act of opening the box appears to resolve the situation. Does your act decide the cat's fate? Must you bear responsibility?

No. The wave function does not pretend to describe the cat. The information it contains is about measurement probabilities, not entirely about what causes them. The cat's fate is sealed as soon as a radioactive emission effects an irreversible consequence in the world – certainly by the time the first detector clicks. We simply do not know what has happened until we open the box. If we want to reassure ourselves that our action did not kill the cat, then we can perform an autopsy to determine the instant of demise.

[hooplala]

Well, if you're going to listen to scientists...

[fomenter]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The cat depends entirely on one's beliefs.

One may consider the cat "undetermined" until we look, because we cannot predict its state. If one takes the Copenhagen view, then we cannot have a model (even the holographic one we pretend is reality) where the cat IS alive or dead, until we look.

One may consider that the cat is alive or dead without looking, based on the RBT (Revised Barstool Theory).

One may consider the cat alive in some multiverse, dead is some multiverse and an escapee in the multiverse where the cat was much smarter than the humans trying to stick him in such a dangerous box. Other multiverses include the cat being a lynx, the cat being a dog, the researcher being a Discordian, the researcher being a cat and the thing in the box being a Deep One.

Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.

Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.

[LMNO]

Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.

Most but not all of Rat's post was utter bullshit, except for this bit.

Or, I should say MosbunalloRatpowasutbushit, except for this bit.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.

Most but not all of Rat's post was utter bullshit, except for this bit.

Or, I should say MosbunalloRatpowasutbushit, except for this bit.

Sigh, get it right

mosbunalloratspostsAREbushit 

[Jenne]

Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.

ACHOO!

Don't I know it.  *wipes snotball on sleeve*

[Triple Zero]

honest, the cat was already dead when I got there.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses.  It just doesn't really explain it.

Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead.  It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.

Incorrect.  The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.

That is all.

I'm not sure how this differs from what I said.  Our math can't predict which it is, so we have to look.   This doesn't put the cat in some "middle state" of dealivead that suddenly shifts to "alive" or "dead" through the act of our observing.

Quantum theory appears to be saying that until the box is opened the cat is in a smeared-out state, a superposition of possibilities, in this case half dead and half alive. Your act of opening the box appears to resolve the situation. Does your act decide the cat's fate? Must you bear responsibility?

No. The wave function does not pretend to describe the cat. The information it contains is about measurement probabilities, not entirely about what causes them. The cat's fate is sealed as soon as a radioactive emission effects an irreversible consequence in the world – certainly by the time the first detector clicks. We simply do not know what has happened until we open the box. If we want to reassure ourselves that our action did not kill the cat, then we can perform an autopsy to determine the instant of demise.

Balls.  If the math says the universe doesn't have to decide yet, it doesn't.  You can only autopsy the cat if the state the situation collapses into says it's dead.  Until then, it's both.

TGRR,
Standard Interpretation, my ass.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The cat depends entirely on one's beliefs.

One may consider the cat "undetermined" until we look, because we cannot predict its state. If one takes the Copenhagen view, then we cannot have a model (even the holographic one we pretend is reality) where the cat IS alive or dead, until we look.

One may consider that the cat is alive or dead without looking, based on the RBT (Revised Barstool Theory).

One may consider the cat alive in some multiverse, dead is some multiverse and an escapee in the multiverse where the cat was much smarter than the humans trying to stick him in such a dangerous box. Other multiverses include the cat being a lynx, the cat being a dog, the researcher being a Discordian, the researcher being a cat and the thing in the box being a Deep One.

Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.

Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.

Utter rot.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, if you're going to listen to scientists...

WHICH scientists?  Smolin and Ashtekar are also big fans of the "cat is BOTH" view.

[Honey]

This is a testimonial of sorts...so it's not really a rant per se.  It probably sucks, so don't mind if it does too terribly much.
************************************************************************


One day, you're a perfectly "normal" citizen, a Joe Sixpack or a Jill Someoneorother...and you're sitting there, practically minding your own business.  Then you notice that you've been on this rather pervasive yet thought-provoking and confrontational forum for a bit, and you FINALLY get the in-jokes, can make a few yourself, yadda yadda.  You almost feel like you belong there, but don't really bother trying too hard for the most part.  It's actually good enough to just soak up the atmosphere and read up on what's going down.

THEN, oh my god, you're sitting on a bus with a pocketful of people you were at a conference with, on your way to the airport of all places, and they're bitching about their divorces, mortgages, the cost of gas.  Suddenly, out of nowhere, you hear yourself telling them that "the imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos," that there was this cat, in a box, but it was dead, but it wasn't...that equalizing order with disorder doesn't amount to a hill of beans...religion, yeah, that goes nowhere fast...the government, it doesn't exist...

Holy shit.  You've gone viral.

It's ok.  Take a breath.  Obviously, months and months of reading all that stuff has finally sunk in.  And what's more:  you've started to believe in it, apply it, and make it yours!  That's a good thing.

Know why?  Because otherwise, you're just wasting your time.  And telling those pocketful of people on the bus?  That's just natural.  Because when you "get it," and they DON'T, you feel the uh-oh welling up until you have to just say, "Well, you see, there's these two guys at a bar, and one of them is on a barstool..."

I like this as a testimonial or rant or what-have-you?  It rings true & has resonance.  I can relate.  I like the bar stool thought experiment better than the cat one anyway so that part didn't distract me even the tiniest scintilla.  Thanks & respect.   

[Kai]

This is a testimonial of sorts...so it's not really a rant per se.  It probably sucks, so don't mind if it does too terribly much.
************************************************************************


One day, you're a perfectly "normal" citizen, a Joe Sixpack or a Jill Someoneorother...and you're sitting there, practically minding your own business.  Then you notice that you've been on this rather pervasive yet thought-provoking and confrontational forum for a bit, and you FINALLY get the in-jokes, can make a few yourself, yadda yadda.  You almost feel like you belong there, but don't really bother trying too hard for the most part.  It's actually good enough to just soak up the atmosphere and read up on what's going down.

THEN, oh my god, you're sitting on a bus with a pocketful of people you were at a conference with, on your way to the airport of all places, and they're bitching about their divorces, mortgages, the cost of gas.  Suddenly, out of nowhere, you hear yourself telling them that "the imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos," that there was this cat, in a box, but it was dead, but it wasn't...that equalizing order with disorder doesn't amount to a hill of beans...religion, yeah, that goes nowhere fast...the government, it doesn't exist...

Holy shit.  You've gone viral.

It's ok.  Take a breath.  Obviously, months and months of reading all that stuff has finally sunk in.  And what's more:  you've started to believe in it, apply it, and make it yours!  That's a good thing.

Know why?  Because otherwise, you're just wasting your time.  And telling those pocketful of people on the bus?  That's just natural.  Because when you "get it," and they DON'T, you feel the uh-oh welling up until you have to just say, "Well, you see, there's these two guys at a bar, and one of them is on a barstool..."

I've been viral for a while now. It creeps up on you.

[eighteen buddha strike]

This thread has ruined schrodingers cat for me, and reality seems managable and sane once more.

[LMNO]

[TGRR]

Just another service we provide.

[/TGRR]