George Tiller Killed

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Franks also noted that unlike the moderate Republican elite, many of these people did not have University educations.

The Republicans set up this beast to garner votes, with no real intention to ever follow up on their promises.  And now, the monster they created is shambling off to the nearest village, shouting "braaaaaaaaaains....".  They saw the promises were never being kept, so they infiltrated the party en masse and moved it way to the right.

They almost deserve to be run out of the Party by the Palinista.

Palinista

[Iason Ouabache]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/07/AR2009060701207.html

The man charged with murdering a high-profile abortion doctor claimed from his jail cell Sunday that similar violence was planned around the nation for as long as the procedure remained legal, a threat that comes days after a federal investigation launched into his possible accomplices.

A Justice Department spokesman said the threat was being taken seriously and additional protection had been ordered for abortion clinics last week. But a leader of the anti-abortion movement derided the accused shooter as "a fruit and a lunatic."

Scott Roeder called The Associated Press from the Sedgwick County jail, where he's being held on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the shooting of Dr. George Tiller one week ago.

"I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal," Roeder said. When asked by the AP what he meant and if he was referring to another shooting, he refused to elaborate further.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=22277

Since there is no doubt that we have a history of anti-abortion domestic terrorism, and since we know that evangelicals already support torture for everyone, when do we get to start waterboarding this guy? Does he have any children whose testicles can be crushed? Will we keep him up for weeks on end in stress positions in extremely cold rooms to get him to break? Beat him? All the right made a very good show of how shocked and appalled they were when this man killed Dr. Tiller, so surely they will not object. So when do we get to start torturing this guy?

[Cain]

John Cole knows the wingnut mindset too well (being a former one).  He knows there is no argument the wingnuts can proffer, except one that tacitly admits their approval of far-right terrorism.

[Corvidia]

^ That.

That the Democrats have basically abandoned their populist roots does not help either, as it cedes the ground to religious and right-wing organizations, some sensible, but far too many interested in seeing the poor and less powerful in society actively work against their own interests.  And far too many religious groups who, knowingly or otherwise, continue such a state of affairs.

Democrats were never populists, as such. Populism was brought into the tent in the late 1890s (1896?) and eaten alive. They appear to revive it when it's convenient but they never really subscribed to it.

My mother, who's been reduced to severe poverty after being a millionaire's wife, is a two-headed hydra.  On the one hand, she wants to be treated specially by the government, because she has no formal education, no job experience, and the government took all her husband's ill-gotten gains from her.  So why not give her the free ride everyone else should get, right?  Yet she'll rail against the so-called welfare mothers, the higher taxes and anything else that would make sense for someone who would love to take advantage of anything offered to her through the gummament.

My late step grandfather was like that. My step dad calls it Great Depression republicanism and it sounds a little like your mother is a product of similar circumstances (wealth and ease abruptly replaced with grinding poverty).

[Cain]

Democrats were never populists, as such. Populism was brought into the tent in the late 1890s (1896?) and eaten alive. They appear to revive it when it's convenient but they never really subscribed to it.

I meant small p populism, as opposed to Populism the movement.  And while I agree they never bought into it wholesale, their links with unions, such as the American Federation of Labor means they had an influence, even if it was small.

[Corvidia]

Refresh my memory on Democratic links to the AFL before about 1920, please?

[Iason Ouabache]

The terrorists have won.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sns-ap-us-abortion-shooting,0,124499.story

George Tiller's slaying has accomplished what anti-abortion activists had tried to do for decades: The doors to his Kansas clinic will shut forever.

The announcement Tuesday from Tiller's family was a tainted victory for the nation's anti-abortion movement. For years, it made Tiller the focus of protests, legislation and legal attacks. His death reignited a public debate over some abortion opponents' tactics and left many wondering how it will transform the abortion battleground.

Now that Tiller and his clinic are gone, the epicenter of the anti-abortion movement is less clear. Kansas has long been a lightning rod in the hot-button social issue — and in 2002, the leader of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue even moved his organization to the city to wage an aggressive campaign. With the clinic's doors closed, the movement loses one of its key protest symbols.

"Part of what is a tragedy about this is that violence has achieved its objective," said Nancy Northup, president of Center for Reproductive Rights. "There is a concerted, ongoing effort at harassment and restriction with an aim to make doctors leave the field."

Operations at Women's Health Care Services Inc. were suspended following Tiller's death last month. In a statement released by his attorneys, Tiller's family said relatives had chosen to honor him with charitable activities instead of reopening the clinic.

"We are proud of the service and courage shown by our husband and father and know that women's health care needs have been met because of his dedication and service," the family said in the statement. They did not elaborate on their reasoning to close.

[Corvidia]

They've won--for now. Someone will come along and pick up where he left off. Hopefully they'll have a less ominous name ("Smith the Baby Killer" just doesn't have the same ring, you know). Sort of like Evie when V died, maybe.

[Iason Ouabache]

They've won--for now. Someone will come along and pick up where he left off. Hopefully they'll have a less ominous name ("Smith the Baby Killer" just doesn't have the same ring, you know). Sort of like Evie when V died, maybe.

I hope your right but their scare tactics are starting to work. If you were a doctor would you sign up for it knowing that there would be protesters at your office  AND house 24/7 and that dozens of people would use your photo as target practice? It doesn't help that medical schools are refusing to teach the procedure.

[Corvidia]

If I had the math for a hard science, I'd do it. There's one other guy in the country who does it and I'd ask him to teach me. Or go out of the country to learn how, not only to flip the bird at the pro-life movement but because there's a genuine need for it. Abortion is not a choice sane women take lightly and even more so when it's so close to birth, but he clearly was doing business.
The point is moot, however, since I don't have the math.

I'm pretty sure there's someone else with my line of thinking AND the skills to carry it through.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If I had the math for a hard science, I'd do it. There's one other guy in the country who does it and I'd ask him to teach me. Or go out of the country to learn how, not only to flip the bird at the pro-life movement but because there's a genuine need for it. Abortion is not a choice sane women take lightly and even more so when it's so close to birth, but he clearly was doing business.
The point is moot, however, since I don't have the math.

I'm pretty sure there's someone else with my line of thinking AND the skills to carry it through.

I hear this sometimes and I don't understand... maybe you can explain.

Don't you just learn the math you need when you go into science? That's how we do it here... you can be a liberal arts major, and when you switch to the sciences, you just have to take a couple of extra math classes to catch up, and a few more as you go along. Do they handle it differently where you are? I've heard so many people say that they don't "have the math", and it sounds as if they've missed a window of opportunity that they can't return to.

[Triple Zero]

What really doesnt help is your government not treating these actual terrorists like, you know, actual terrorists. And I dont mean waterboarding, but treating it like it was the action of a lone nut, instead of a political assassination based on religious fundamental beliefs that are shared by a large group of people living right in your country, a group of people that actively condoned and cheered at this assassination ... isn't this exactly the sort of terrorism your government should be protecting your people from?

[AFK]

What really doesnt help is your government not treating these actual terrorists like, you know, actual terrorists. And I dont mean waterboarding, but treating it like it was the action of a lone nut, instead of a political assassination based on religious fundamental beliefs that are shared by a large group of people living right in your country, a group of people that actively condoned and cheered at this assassination ... isn't this exactly the sort of terrorism your government should be protecting your people from?

I dunno, it certainly takes them a long ass time when they actually do go after the domestic terrorits.  See The Unabomber and Eric Rudolph.  Those fuckers were able to operate for years before our talented investigators finally found them.  And the only reason they found the Unabomber was because his fucking brother turned him in.  So yeah, in theory, it would be nice if they would actually put some effort into it, but it seems like there isn't much daylight between their action and inaction. 

[Iason Ouabache]

What really doesnt help is your government not treating these actual terrorists like, you know, actual terrorists. And I dont mean waterboarding, but treating it like it was the action of a lone nut, instead of a political assassination based on religious fundamental beliefs that are shared by a large group of people living right in your country, a group of people that actively condoned and cheered at this assassination ... isn't this exactly the sort of terrorism your government should be protecting your people from?

The Justice Dept is doing an investigation to see if there was someone manipulating Roeder but who knows if it will go anywhere. It does seem suspicious that a slightly mentally handicapped man with very little money was able to make numerous trips to Kansas City and be able to afford a gun. He has links to a couple of anti-abortion groups so there is a possibility that someone else was funding him and planted the idea into his head.

The part about all of this that really pisses me off is that the Department of Homeland Security had a report on right-wing domestic terrorism earlier this year that all but predicted this. And what happened? The right wing whined and cried long enough that the DHS retracted the report despite the fact that nothing in it was incorrect. Instead of taking a step back and wondering why they attract so many violent fuckheads the right wing did all they could to protect their terrorists.

[Arafelis]

Or the DHS is the one who gave him a gun.