The BIP is not a Discordian work: discuss

[Cain]

I don't like Rata's answers. 

Therefore, he is not Discordian.

After all, I like Discordianism.

But I do not like Rata's answers.

Ta-da!  Cold hard logic.

[LMNO]

[Bu🤠ns]

Discordianism is what you want it to be.  That's why you're all a bunch of popes in the first place.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Discordianism is what you want it to be.  That's why you're all a bunch of popes in the first place.

Bollocks. I joined this band of spags hoping it was a way to get rich quick.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

When I think of Discordian works being "funny," I tend to think of them as being funny in that the reaction you have to them is laughter. That doesn't necessarily mean they are jokes or that they are humorous, but there's something in the snap at the end of a piece of Discordian literature that evokes laughter -- and it usually isn't "funny" laughter like you'd have after somebody just told a joke, but the kind of laughter you have when you don't know how else to react, and screaming would be inappropriate for some reason.

I'd say that jokes have punchlines, and Discordian works have snaplines. They can both make you laugh, but only one of them stings.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

When I think of Discordian works being "funny," I tend to think of them as being funny in that the reaction you have to them is laughter. That doesn't necessarily mean they are jokes or that they are humorous, but there's something in the snap at the end of a piece of Discordian literature that evokes laughter -- and it usually isn't "funny" laughter like you'd have after somebody just told a joke, but the kind of laughter you have when you don't know how else to react, and screaming would be inappropriate for some reason.

I'd say that jokes have punchlines, and Discordian works have snaplines. They can both make you laugh, but only one of them stings.

Excellent observation... I like 'snaplines'.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

But I think the BIP qualifies because it has that atmosphere of someone just coming out and telling you what you have already been suspecting but didn't want to admit to yourself. It isn't as light-hearted or as silly as the PD, but it's still a slap in the face forcing you to come to terms with what's "really bugging you."

[Cramulus]

riffing on nobody's assertation that discordia is "enlightenment through absurdity", the BIP could be considered discordian because it suggests that you estrange youself from your identity.




Estrange really is a good word for it --

Estrange
1 : to remove from customary environment or associations
2 : to arouse especially mutual enmity or indifference in where there had formerly been love, affection, or friendliness

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

But I think the BIP qualifies because it has that atmosphere of someone just coming out and telling you what you have already been suspecting but didn't want to admit to yourself. It isn't as light-hearted or as silly as the PD, but it's still a slap in the face forcing you to come to terms with what's "really bugging you."

I think its the "really" bit that bugs some people... even in the self-deprecating bit LMNO quoted... it was self-deprecation on the part of the author, not the work.  The author admits he doesn't know much outside his cell... but still assumes that the Cell is real and the BiP is a prison etc etc... there isn't a "wipe thine ass on what is written" vibe to it at all... for some Discordians (including me the first time I read it) it seems to come across as alien from a Discordian perspective.

I still think absurdism is the key, I note that since I tried to post this and failed, Cramulus has made a very good comment on that.

riffing on nobody's assertation that discordia is "enlightenment through absurdity", the BIP could be considered discordian because it suggests that you estrange youself from your identity.




Estrange really is a good word for it --

Estrange
1 : to remove from customary environment or associations
2 : to arouse especially mutual enmity or indifference in where there had formerly been love, affection, or friendliness

The BiP and the PD both seem to push absurdest thought 'Reality is what you make it, the 'purpose of life' is what you define'. Estranging yourself from your identity is an excellent addition to that for both books... and I'd argue that we could probably point to 'mosbunal' "Discordian" writings and see very similar underlying currents.

[Thurnez Isa]

nobody is a fucking moron.

I beginning to think this statement is correct
big time

[Triple Zero]

for starters, I believe the BIP to be a Discordian work because it has been written by Discordian Popes as the result of a Discussion on Discordian Matters.

(shut up--I'm not going to define Discordian Matters for you, does Nobody think for himself anymore?)

and then, I may agree with LMNO, there were lots of serious pieces in the PD, they all just happened to be sprinkled with drawings and quotes and little absurdities in the margins. the BIP doesn't really have much of that. I think it would go down a lot better with your average Discordian critic if the BIP had more fnords and absurd bits in the margins to sugarcoat it for the pineal23flazzle*. I'm not sure if it should have those, but that's what sets it apart from the PD, mostly.

* defined as that bit of the brain which responds positively to deep philosophical stuff coated in absurd bits in the margins

[AFK]

LMNO pretty much nailed it in my estimation.  I think there is a reason the PD has that tagline near the end, "If you think this was just a ha-ha, go read it again."

I think the BIP has a tagline too, "If you think this is just a bunch of doom and gloom, go read it again."

Because I don't understand how anyone can read the thing, I mean really read it and consider it, and come up with the conclusions that it is a)too dark and b) not discordian.  Of course it is Discordian, because it is addressing some of the same philosophical ideas embedded and spelled out in the PD.  It is just more streamlined for his and her pleasure.  And also I think it was helpful to give it a modernized treatment, for the kids of today. 

I would go further and suggest it is a GOOD thing that a Discordian work strips away the cliche and superficial nyuks to reinforce the idea that Discordianism isn't just about running around town with your buddies shouting out fnords to everyone.  Discordianism is more than being a Monty Python tribute comedy act. 

To me Discordianism is really about reframing and reconsidering your thinking mechanisms.  That you've been on autopilot for all of these years and the PD and the BIP are both suggesting you take a step back, and really examine how you think and how you react to the world.  BIP isn't dark, it IS hopeful.  Because I think it is a powerful gift and tool for a person to really be able to understand why they are where they are and what kind of thinking got them, and those around them, in that very spot.   That's my two cents anyway. 

[Cramulus]

I admit in advance this may be a stupid suggestion

but the BIP was originally conceived of with energy intended for "the PD 06"...


Maybe it's time to write the BIP 09?

[LMNO]

It's a bit unsettling that we started this three fucking years ago...


Anyway, if we were to do this again, I'd suggest alternating nonlulz pieces (2 man con, etc) with lulzy pieces (parable of the sacred bull, et al).  So, it sort of alternates amusing anectdotes with srzbznz.

[AFK]

I think it is a good idea.

The trick is getting it to happen to completion. 

Though, considering we have, what, 4 or 5 issues of Intermittens, it may not be that lofty of a goal. 

We have had some interesting discussions since BIP.  Of course the Shrapnel/Paths stuff comes to mind for me.  I could work that into a more focused essay.