The BIP is not a Discordian work: discuss

[Arafelis]

is a disingenuous way of referring to the ideas of the BIP, but I suppose that's a matter of communication.

It's definitely disingenuous.  It's also ironic, since we just had a discussion about Plato's Cave as an idea in the BIP.

[Kai]

Well, the Greeks didn't care about that stuff, really.  Warrior ethos and all that.  Yes it was petty and pointless but you got to strut around a battlefield in fricking armour, being all manly and shit.

I don't know, Homer (or whoever started it) made it clear that no one had really won at the end, I mean, the thing ends in two funerals of great heros on both sides, the culprits who started the whole mess (Paris, Helen, Agamemnon and Achillies) walk free and no one was saved. The line that sums it up for me "In times of peace, sons bury their fathers; in times of war, fathers bury their suns". And maybe I just got it wrong with the first reading and don't really understand it yet, but thats the deeper meaning I got out of it so far.

I'm pretty sure that quote was a later addition, since it comes from Herodotus of Halicarnassus.

Did you miss the theme about greatness/glory and death, or a long yet anonymous life?  I mean, that was the offer made to Achilles, and that Greek culture celebrated his choice suggests they found the former to be the right one.

I got the theme that achilles could live a long and quiet life or stay and fight (and die young) on the shores of troy. Didn't see any glory in that.

I guess I misinterpreted the whole damn thing.

For my mother Thetis the goddess of silver feet tells me
I carry two sorts of destiny toward the day of my death. Either,
if I stay here and fight beside the city of the Trojans,
my return home is gone, but my glory shall be everlasting;
but if I return home to the beloved land of my fathers,
the excellence of my glory is gone, but there will be a long life
left for me, and my end in death will not come to me quickly.

can you give me the book and line number for that? I want to compare translations. thanks

[Cain]

can you give me the book and line number for that? I want to compare translations. thanks

Richard Lattimore's and Book IX.410–16

Just so you know, I'm not taking exception to your interpretation, just pointing out the Ancient Greeks almost certainly wouldn't have thought of it that way, at least into the late Classical period (where rewriting legends to present a different meaning got more popular).

[Cainad (dec.)]

is a disingenuous way of referring to the ideas of the BIP, but I suppose that's a matter of communication.

It's definitely disingenuous.  It's also ironic, since we just had a discussion about Plato's Cave as an idea in the BIP.

Right.


Cainad,
Apparently gets all grumpy when semi-heated discussions range across multiple threads that are many pages long, each about similar subjects.

[Cainad (dec.)]

In retrospect, my post on the previous page was pretty much just reactionary bile and did not add anything new to the discussion. So I apologize to the thread in general for gumming it up.

[Cain]

I have reactionary bile fascination.

[Kai]

can you give me the book and line number for that? I want to compare translations. thanks

Richard Lattimore's and Book IX.410–16

Just so you know, I'm not taking exception to your interpretation, just pointing out the Ancient Greeks almost certainly wouldn't have thought of it that way, at least into the late Classical period (where rewriting legends to present a different meaning got more popular).

I found the corresponding lines at 471-478 in the same book, translation by Ennis Rees.

My goddess mother, Thetis
Of the silver feet, tells me I bear two fates
With me on my way to the grave. If I stay here
And fight about Troy, I'll never return to my home,
But men will remember my glory forever. On the other hand,
If I go back to the precious land of my fathers,
No glory at all will be mine, but life, long life,
Will be, and no early death shall ever come on me.

At this point, however, Achilles refuses Agamemnon's offer. He only enters battle later, in grief for his fallen friend Patroclus. There seemed to be no glory in it, only revenge, which I think points away from the glorification of war.

[Iason Ouabache]

[AFK]

Luckily, the old pdfs still exist

nothing lost at all 

Right, but the "old PDF's" could (and probably will, if my experience is any guide) easily just gradually be lost, and only the currently circulating whatever-we're-calling the BIP will remain. And I think that would be kind of sad. I'm far more in favor of a new project; a complete rewrite, if you will, with a different name.

IAWTC

Except for typos and layout stuff, we don't rehash individual editions of Intermittens.  Why can't the "larger" publications also follow this process? 

[Telarus]

Hope your stickin around.... I want to chalk up a Convert Me Win

Good Goddess really. I had hoped that one of the Convert_Me spags would interface with our ideas more than the shallow gloss Enders_Shadow has adopted.

[Arafelis]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who introduced enders_shadow to Discordianism.

I accept anything this board throws at me as karmic justice.

[Bu🤠ns]

 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who introduced enders_shadow to Discordianism.

I accept anything this board throws at me as karmic justice.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=20433

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who introduced enders_shadow to Discordianism.

I accept anything this board throws at me as karmic justice.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=20433

Nice try, Arefalis (or should I say, DAVE).

[P3nT4gR4m]

Heh. If Sun Tzu had decided to do a sequel called "The Art of Fail" This one would have a chapter all to himself