[IDEA] Deconstructing Discordianism

[Cain]

Taken from the Watchmen and Philosophy thread:

Moore did not need Jean Baudrillard (perhaps the greatest of the postmodern philosophers) to tell him that "the idea is destroyed by its own realization," that the "extreme" development of an idea (which takes that idea beyond its own limits, end, or terminus, into "a state of ex-termination") can thereby destroy it—as, for example, sex is destroyed by "porn,"which is "more sexual than sex"; the body by "obesity,"which is "fatter than fat"; violence by "terror," which is "more violent than violence"; information by "simulation," which is "truer than true"; time by "instantaneity," which is "more present than the present," and as, in Watchmen, the hero is destroyed by the superhero, who is more heroic than any hero, but whose extreme "heroics" are no longer recognizable as heroics.  Moore seems instinctively to know (or else he has, like Watchmen's Ozymandias, studied "a hundred different philosophies") that one of the most powerful deconstructive strategies involves provisionally accepting an idea, thesis, position, or worldview, then working from inside it to extend it beyond its limits until it is eventually made to collapse under its own weight, like a plant forced to bear  fruit too heavy for its own branches.  I would call this strategy  hypertrophic deconstruction (after Nietzsche, who recognized that "a hypertrophic virtue  ...may bring about the decay of a people as much as a hypertrophic vice.").  Watchmen deconstructs the hero by developing its heroes—extending traditional hero fantasies beyond their limits—to the point where the reader comes to understand that these fantasies, realized, become nightmares.

I would suggest instead that when a genre seems to commit suicide—as philosophy did (with Kant, Heidegger, and Wittgenstein) and as the super-hero comic did (with Watchmen)—this apparent suicide is usually better understood as an attempted martyrdom, that is, a sacrifice with a redemptive intent, a would-be rebirth (even if in a different form).When the greatest representatives of a genre seek to end it, this is perhaps because they sense (on some level) that no field can long survive without being periodically revitalized by such sacrifice and rebirth. It is no coincidence that many of the comics which followed Watchmen sought to respond to its challenging deconstruction of the hero, and that the result greatly enriched the comics medium as a whole.More than fifteen years later, mainstream comics continue to occupy a post-Watchmen landscape, one in which Watchmen's ambivalence about the hero has become nearly ubiquitous.  Even in the darkest of contemporary comics, however, a careful reader can still recognize the sparks from that ongoing struggle to imagine and create the kinds of heroes who will prove themselves capable of inspiring the denizens of this complex and morally ambiguous world, a struggle which seeks to keep alive (as the dream of the hero, with all its risks, has always done) our hope for a better future.

Perhaps deconstructing Discordianism - or all irreligions - would be a worthwhile project?

Just an idea I'm throwing out there.

[Arafelis]

Could we get the Church of Google to deconstruct Discordianism?

Or at least some hardcore Subgenii.

Or maybe a fundie.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Could we get the Church of Google to deconstruct Discordianism?

Or at least some hardcore Subgenii.

Or maybe a fundie.

The Church of Google got mostly deconstructed by Discordians... deconstructed in the sense of a wrecking ball.

[Cain]

Could we get the Church of Google to deconstruct Discordianism?

Or at least some hardcore Subgenii.

Or maybe a fundie.

None of them would be very good at it, I think (Subgenii are too busy being hip and jaded, Rata has already dealt with the COG, and fundies can never do better than try to refute).

I'm thinking more like we do a series of works where we take Discordianism and the ideas presented within or practiced to their ultimate, final and logical conclusion, no matter how difficult or personally complex that may end up being.

After all, we here would probably be the best people around for it.  Maybe Irreality could have done it, if it was still around, but not many others.

[Iason Ouabache]

Sounds like an interesting idea for a project. I'm willing to participate but I make no guarantees about the quality of my work.

[Kai]

Could we get the Church of Google to deconstruct Discordianism?

Or at least some hardcore Subgenii.

Or maybe a fundie.

None of them would be very good at it, I think (Subgenii are too busy being hip and jaded, Rata has already dealt with the COG, and fundies can never do better than try to refute).

I'm thinking more like we do a series of works where we take Discordianism and the ideas presented within or practiced to their ultimate, final and logical conclusion, no matter how difficult or personally complex that may end up being.

After all, we here would probably be the best people around for it.  Maybe Irreality could have done it, if it was still around, but not many others.

My question is: /whose/ discordianism?

[Cain]

All of them.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Any of them?

[Cain]

As many as we can find.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Whichever one(s) that you are willing and able to put some serious thought into deconstructing in the way Cain describes. Hopefully that will cover most flavors of it.

[Roaring Biscuit!]

that sounds like one hell of a task...

thought that Student/Master thing i wrote a few days ago could be relevant?  It sort of takes one aspect of Discordianism to an extreme conclusion.

x

[Kai]

I guess in watchmen he did deconstruct several types of (super)heros.

[Arafelis]

I'm interested, but I'm still turning the proposal over in my head.  My experience of Discordianism is that it very often ends up with someone who no longer calls themselves a Discordian, but where it kicks them out (or rather, where they kick themselves out of it) is different and matters.

Hmmm.

[Cain]

I'll confess my main interest is essentially knocking it apart to put it back together again.

That's half the fun.

[Kai]

I'll confess my main interest is essentially knocking it apart to put it back together again.

That's half the fun.

Kinda like how deconstructing heros helps you figure out what a hero really is, or what you would want a hero to be.