Sigil thread

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I make sigils because I enjoy making little arcane looking things, theb leaving them around to spook people.  

Do I need other reasons?

That's probably the best possible reason.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yeah... what the hell is that, anyway?

Western civilization sliding back into the mud.

Welcome back to 800 AD.  Be sure you leave a saucer of milk out for the faeries.  You know how cranky they get.

[LMNO]

BRB, GOTTA ADJUST THE HORSESHOE OVER MY DOOR.  TWEET ME BACK.

[AFK]

Hey, so you think those little hearts that were left around the office the other day were sigils?  What does it mean?  Should I be readjusting my charkras?

[hooplala]

@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?

[Cain]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

"Hey peasants, gather around and watch as the Prophet Cain makes a coin travel through his arm.  Now, I will retire to the beautiful home you have graciously provided me, to, uh, meditate with my female acolytes."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?

You didn't invoke enough.

[LMNO]

@LMNO just charged my newest sigil in bathroom at work - still no toilet paper - what went wrong?

Teh Anchint Majikz do not recognize indoor plumbing.  Please check your local outhouse.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I photocopy little pictures of the Key of Solomon for the same purpose.

Too much work. Not enough masturbation.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You DID NOT just use the word "mundane".

um,  I'm the one who brought the word sigilmancy into the thread.  I totally said mundane.

You might as well start calling people muggles now, get it over with.

I say "mundane" but its generally in an SCA context like "Where did you store my mundane clothes? I have to drive into town." or "I stopped to get gas and I think I freaked the mundanes out with our car full of 12th century weirdos."

I was gonna write a response to this, but I think it would be better off in a new thread in TFY,S.


However, the main problem I have with sigils is that it appears you only charge it once.  As far as I remember, the most important rule in Madgjyeeksz is to "invoke often."

From what I've read above, what some of y'all are describing is about as effective as lighting a green candle so you can get some money to pay the rent.

(assume all of the below is subjective based on my experiences and what I've read etc)

First, there are different categories of "magic" tricks... much like different categories of attacks you can perform against a computer system.

So, a general set of categories might be Invocation, Evocation and Divination. There are more or less depending on how you split things up and who you listen to etc.

Invocation is a process by which you modify your personality to reflect the traits of a specific archetype. If you consider the different aspects of your personality to be like an equalizer, Invocation is about tweaking the different frequencies to get to the goal you have. "Invoke Often" is a maxim because, first, its not always easy to modify your own EQ, especially not the first couple times you try it. The second bit is (just like an EQ) you may have to tweak it several times to get exactly the settings you want. If you Invoke often, focused on the archetype you want to emulate, eventually you can get the personality you perceive as your goal set as a sort of preset in the equalizer.

Augoeides is a different sort of magic where you interact with a 'entity' that is "outside of you" (not for real, just in perception). So Conversations with the Holy Guardian Angel, etc fall into this set. These experiences often are unique and not repeatable. Guys like RAW claimed that may be because the experience is directly tied to the subconscious of the individual and what they're looking for at the time.

Evocation is the process of summoning 'demons' or 'angels' or egrigores etc. Multiple Evocation exercises may be necessary to get the hang of it, but once you are comfortable with the process, it isn't a process you have to repeat regularly (you don't need to do the same ritual and evoke the same entity). Evocation, like the more specific Augoeides are all about the experience and what you get out of that experience.

Sigil magic is generally considered to be part of the Evocation set, not the Invocation set. Rather than temporarily modifying yourself to take on the characteristics of "an entity", you are directly modifying an entity (maybe yourself).

The general argument that Austin Spare Osman uses with sigils is that we're basically programming our subconscious. So we tie the goal in our subconscious to the sigil we create. According to ASO, when we later charge the sigil we are pushing the goal more deeply into the subconscious and telling it that this is 'important'. Once done, though, it either works or doesn't. To go back to the hacker metaphor, if I use a SQL Injection attack on a site and it doesn't do anything, then I don't keep trying that same attack. I have to go try something different.

Invocation is a long process which involves very specific goals. Evocation is a long process where the sole goal is to experience what has been evoked. Invoking Often, can be important because there's a lot of tweaking and practice involved. Evocation is generally a more "in the moment of this experience" sort of thing.

Sigils seem to work if they are acting as nudges, popping up to remind you of your goal/desire... occasionally picking up on a piece of data that our filters might otherwise miss (kinda like 5's and 23's).

Now of course, it may all be bullshit. Sigils may do nothing, it may be impossible to embed concepts into your subconscious. However, from a purely subjective statement, I have followed the proscribed process and gotten results which seem consistent with the results of others who have also followed the process...

Unfortunately, until we figure out how to objectively catalog what is in our subconscious I don't think there's anything more concrete we can say.

[LMNO]

Even taking the above as complex metaphors for relatively simpler things, I still see sigils as the silliest, because I think repetition has much more to do with it than sigils allow for, especially if you're dealing with the subconscious.

[Bu🤠ns]

totally...hence the irritating commercials over and over and over again flashing their corporate identities over and over and over again.

[LMNO]

GONNA BUY SOME NIKES AND DRINK A PEPSI, TWEET ME BACK.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Even taking the above as complex metaphors for relatively simpler things, I still see sigils as the silliest, because I think repetition has much more to do with it than sigils allow for, especially if you're dealing with the subconscious.

I see that argument. RAW's quarter experiment seems to be a good example of exactly what you're talking about. The people that made the modern sigil concept up though, appear to think that repetition in this case is counter to the idea. That is, by the time you get around to 'charging your sigil' you should not consciously remember what that sigil represented. The sigil is already tied subconsciously to the goal (from when you made it). Repetition would become a conscious focus on the goal...

In my experiences, sigils seem useful as reminders or nudges... I've had a sigil (or a goal tied to a sigil) pop up and shift my focus to something I might otherwise ignore. Invocation has been an interesting andf useful experience and evocation has been as well... but they all seem very different in the experience and the results.

In the end, it boils down to try stuff if you want to and see what happens. I've tried some magic practices that seem to do absolutely nothing. I've tried others that seem to produce experiences much like what is described.

Then again, I may just be crazy.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I usually just load a reminder message into my cell phone.