Author Topic: Is it just me or is distaste for Libertarianism contradictory to discordianism?  (Read 63861 times)

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Some of you have never in your life sat in a boardroom and it shows.  The ONLY thing that regulates corporations is fines and the threat of prison.  The consumer isn't even on the radar.

:lol:  Still laughing about that.

For a history of corporate responsibility in society, I like to point at energy supply provider Enron. What they did was deliberately caused blackouts and at least partially contributing to the environment that caused the LA riots, who'd have thought when the lights go out, angry disenfranchised people riot.
They did so because some of them at least believed they were operating within the letter of the law, only just. They were just constricting supply when demand was high to trigger a more lucrative emergency measure energy payment.
People died in the riots. People died in their homes through accidents. And not just so a company could make money (they were already making a killing), but so they could make MORE money.

Wait, Enron actually had a service they provided? I had been under the impression that they were a pure Ponzi scheme that did nothing and produced nothing.
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Faust

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Some of you have never in your life sat in a boardroom and it shows.  The ONLY thing that regulates corporations is fines and the threat of prison.  The consumer isn't even on the radar.

:lol:  Still laughing about that.

For a history of corporate responsibility in society, I like to point at energy supply provider Enron. What they did was deliberately caused blackouts and at least partially contributing to the environment that caused the LA riots, who'd have thought when the lights go out, angry disenfranchised people riot.
They did so because some of them at least believed they were operating within the letter of the law, only just. They were just constricting supply when demand was high to trigger a more lucrative emergency measure energy payment.
People died in the riots. People died in their homes through accidents. And not just so a company could make money (they were already making a killing), but so they could make MORE money.

Wait, Enron actually had a service they provided? I had been under the impression that they were a pure Ponzi scheme that did nothing and produced nothing.
Worse then nothing, they actively caused blackouts. They created the conditions for an emergency mechanism to trigger lucrative outside of scheduled market payments.
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Faust

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Some of you have never in your life sat in a boardroom and it shows.  The ONLY thing that regulates corporations is fines and the threat of prison.  The consumer isn't even on the radar.

:lol:  Still laughing about that.

For a history of corporate responsibility in society, I like to point at energy supply provider Enron. What they did was deliberately caused blackouts and at least partially contributing to the environment that caused the LA riots, who'd have thought when the lights go out, angry disenfranchised people riot.
They did so because some of them at least believed they were operating within the letter of the law, only just. They were just constricting supply when demand was high to trigger a more lucrative emergency measure energy payment.
People died in the riots. People died in their homes through accidents. And not just so a company could make money (they were already making a killing), but so they could make MORE money.

Fortunately, they were stopped by consumer watchdog groups.   :lulz:
Is that how Enron were caught, is that a win for free market capitalism as proof of self regulation, or proof for the need FOR regulation
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Doktor Howl

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I feel like you all have a story in your head and you are ignoring what I am saying and fitting it into that story instead.  I am not, for a second, saying that corporations aren't that bad, or that they don't need to be watched.  I am saying that government is also awful, and is run by people like Trump who use it to HELP the corporations be worse, rather than preventing their awfulness.  Exactly how to keep them in line, from the consumer point of view, I still don't know, but government hasn't done it, and has kept Unions from keeping them in line from the employee point of view. 

YOu keep coming back with how awful and selfish corporations are, and how they act as badly as they can get away with.  This is absolutely true and I am not disputing it for a second, this is why we need groups that are more accountable than government to keep them in line.  More accountable to consumers, and less able to be bought up by corporations with a big fat budget devoted to exactly that.

We call them "voters".
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Don Coyote

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Can we just all agree that Libertarians are just a bunch of toddlers who due their lack of object permanence and long term thinking just want to smoke weed and live in a more dystopic corporate dystopia?
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Doktor Howl

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Can we just all agree that Libertarians are just a bunch of toddlers who due their lack of object permanence and long term thinking just want to smoke weed and live in a more dystopic corporate dystopia?

Yes.  And they get in the way when you pop into the coffee shop on the way to work.  They sit there making it obvious that they're reading Atlas Shrugged, and wondering why none of the girls are chatting them up.
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Cain

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I feel like you all have a story in your head and you are ignoring what I am saying and fitting it into that story instead.  I am not, for a second, saying that corporations aren't that bad, or that they don't need to be watched.  I am saying that government is also awful, and is run by people like Trump who use it to HELP the corporations be worse, rather than preventing their awfulness.  Exactly how to keep them in line, from the consumer point of view, I still don't know, but government hasn't done it, and has kept Unions from keeping them in line from the employee point of view. 

YOu keep coming back with how awful and selfish corporations are, and how they act as badly as they can get away with.  This is absolutely true and I am not disputing it for a second, this is why we need groups that are more accountable than government to keep them in line.  More accountable to consumers, and less able to be bought up by corporations with a big fat budget devoted to exactly that.

No, my reply was a direct counter to your comments.

If government is weak, fickle and easily bought off, then consumers are even more so, with the power disparity between people and corporations being even larger than that between corporations and government.

Information asymmetry, tragedy of the commons and defections from the right course of action will be even more apparent with consumers leading the charge. For every successful court case, there are 50 that are settled out of court. Consumers will be bought off, allowing companies to continue with their behaviour.


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Telarus

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And we are seeing "mandatory arbitration outside of court" clauses in all sorts of service and employment contracts nowadays.

Can we just all agree that Libertarians are just a bunch of toddlers who due their lack of object permanence and long term thinking just want to smoke weed and live in a more dystopic corporate dystopia?

My martial arts teacher likes to say they are "cos-playing the period when his country was a pirate-democracy and Americans had free reign to loot other countries' ships in international waters".
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nullified

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And we are seeing "mandatory arbitration outside of court" clauses in all sorts of service and employment contracts nowadays.

Can we just all agree that Libertarians are just a bunch of toddlers who due their lack of object permanence and long term thinking just want to smoke weed and live in a more dystopic corporate dystopia?

My martial arts teacher likes to say they are "cos-playing the period when his country was a pirate-democracy and Americans had free reign to loot other countries' ships in international waters".

I love the word “pirate-democracy” because it fully explains libertarians without further additions necessary. No matter what “pirate” brings to mind for you, it’s basically accurate.
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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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And we are seeing "mandatory arbitration outside of court" clauses in all sorts of service and employment contracts nowadays.

Those definitely need to be banned
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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nullified

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And we are seeing "mandatory arbitration outside of court" clauses in all sorts of service and employment contracts nowadays.

Those definitely need to be banned

Currently they’re effectively useless, since the companies with the heft to make that sort of thing happen have too many goddamn users to enforce it easily.

You can, after all, still take them to court (breaking the EULA) and 9 times out of 10 they can’t stop you from signing back up. They’re just a bad court ruling from becoming truly evil though, so I definitely would prefer them gone.
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