I'm making a religion based on Emergence.

[Golden Applesauce]

It's a completely selfish attempt to stave off destroying ourselves.

There, are you happy now?

Who's "ourselves?"  The remaining 1/12 would be better off if the right 11/12ths died.

As funny as I think Bhode's argument was, it doesn't belong here.

Why doesn't it belong?

From a purely selfish standpoint, if one segment of people could do better without all the other people, they should eliminate the others.  The biggest competitor for resources is almost always a member of the same species; humans are no exception.  If the right mix of farmers, laborers, scientists, engineers, etc were the only ones left on earth, they could have a higher standard of living simply by virtue of having more resources than people and not having to worry about wars with other social groups.

If you want all humanity to work together for the benefit of all humanity, that's a non-trivial assertion.  Why should I work for all humanity when I could just work for those humans I happen to like instead?

[Kai]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

[Golden Applesauce]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

[Kai]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

Roger, and his mind control lazers.

[Golden Applesauce]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

Roger, and his mind control lazers.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

[Kai]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

Roger, and his mind control lazers.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

I stopped taking you seriously when you started spouting "11/12ths".

[Golden Applesauce]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

Roger, and his mind control lazers.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

I stopped taking you seriously when you started spouting "11/12ths".

I was being serious, though.

[Kai]

I would agree with you, except it would make me an /unfunny ASSHOLE/.

So your religion is essentially just to promote a self image which you like?

In which case, what determines what self images you find acceptable?

That Bhodes for you.

Roger, and his mind control lazers.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

I stopped taking you seriously when you started spouting "11/12ths".

I was being serious, though.

[Golden Applesauce]

I went back and reread the thread (or at least most of it that contained content) and I think I can better clarify my position/questions.

So, being aware of the emergent systems will inspire respect and awe for the systems we're a part of, and our realization of our place in the universe will help us to stop trying to be greedy selfish bastards trying to use up everything for ourselves to avoid death and such - the "taking without giving."  (Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding that - if I am then most of my posts here are coming from a misunderstanding.)

This is probably my individualistic bias showing through: but so what?  Yes, I'm a part of this big awesome system (several big awesome systems, actually, some of which are the part of other big awesome systems) and in fact I even contain several big awesome systems, but why should I care?  Why shouldn't I keep taking what I can get away with and only give when it's convenient or helps me too?

Maybe I'm just one of those people who lost or never had proper respect for nature and communion, but the fact that the world is bigger than I am just doesn't do anything for me.  I still want to understand as many parts of it as I can, I still want feel joy and love before I die, I still want that heady feel of power when you figure out how something works well enough to control it.  The fact that the world will keep spinning after I'm gone doesn't really help there - if anything it makes me want to do something huge and crazy so I'll be remembered for longer.  I have a place in the universe.  So what?  Maybe I want a different place in the universe.

[Kai]

I went back and reread the thread (or at least most of it that contained content) and I think I can better clarify my position/questions.

So, being aware of the emergent systems will inspire respect and awe for the systems we're a part of, and our realization of our place in the universe will help us to stop trying to be greedy selfish bastards trying to use up everything for ourselves to avoid death and such - the "taking without giving."  (Please tell me if I'm misunderstanding that - if I am then most of my posts here are coming from a misunderstanding.)

This is probably my individualistic bias showing through: but so what?  Yes, I'm a part of this big awesome system (several big awesome systems, actually, some of which are the part of other big awesome systems) and in fact I even contain several big awesome systems, but why should I care?  Why shouldn't I keep taking what I can get away with and only give when it's convenient or helps me too?

Maybe I'm just one of those people who lost or never had proper respect for nature and communion, but the fact that the world is bigger than I am just doesn't do anything for me.  I still want to understand as many parts of it as I can, I still want feel joy and love before I die, I still want that heady feel of power when you figure out how something works well enough to control it.  The fact that the world will keep spinning after I'm gone doesn't really help there - if anything it makes me want to do something huge and crazy so I'll be remembered for longer.  I have a place in the universe.  So what?  Maybe I want a different place in the universe.

This would only be an issue if I was stuck in the Emergence/Process of Sustaining reality filter 24/7. I'm not.

Kai,

Is one of those people who can switch reality filters at will. Useful.

[Golden Applesauce]

So your religion does have problems, but only if you sincerely believe in it? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've read this thread twice, and I still don't understand the basic premise.

TGRR,
Dumb as a stump.

[LMNO]

Without delving too deeply into the text (sorry Kai.  I swear it's in the queue), I understand it to be that if a large amount of one-process "things" get together, a new process will spontaneously emerge.

[fomenter]

how many times has this thread been split so far ??

i have a theory...
                          if you start a thread on the creation of a religion based on emergence the individual posts will get together, and a "trolled thread' will spontaneously emerge..

[Cramulus]