NLP

[Golden Applesauce]

What the fuck is it?

I've done a (small) amount of reading on Neurolinguistic Programming, and most of what what I've found either sounds like a self-help seminar or is a "very clever, now do can you produce a study in which it works?" kind of papers.  (like this one)

[Requia ☣]

http://www.britishcouncil.org/ar/lithuania-information-centre-collections-06-issue-4.rtf this might help.

No it won't thats just a catalog.

[Requia ☣]

http://cdmotivasi.wordpress.com/files/2008/05/richard-bandler-and-john-grinder-reframing-neuro-linguistic-programming-and-the-transformation-of-meaning.pdf

[Telarus]

NLP is like real-time memetic aikido in meat space face-to-face.



Enjoy the reading.....

[Cain]

Broken AI pretty much says it all.

NLP is a pretty poor model of the mind, it must be said.  Neurobiologists very rarely have something kind to say about it, and some of the hype seems to come from the nature of the group activities that seminars usually involve (getting  alot of people in one place, focused on one goal).  Some of the techniques seem to work, and it does develop a vocabulary for the use of covert persuasion and manipulation...it is just worth keeping in mind it doesn't necessarily work because of why the NLPers say it works (if indeed the technique can be made to work at all).

Also, for some reason, lots of people into NLP are insufferable douchebags.  Those who teach it, as well as those who study it.

[Triple Zero]

yeah, what other people said, and for some reason, NLP is real popular among both the New Age groups and marketing types alike.

also, whenever I try to research what it's really about, all I get is the marketing people trying to sell me stuff, but hardly any of the actual techniques.

I should probably torrent those books though (I tried looking up some shit on youtube--dont bother)

[Golden Applesauce]

Thanks, that cleared some things up.  Hopefully I'll actually get some of those read... but then I've had the Pirate Art of Memetics on my hard drive for a year now and haven't even cracked it open...

[Corvidia]

You ought to. The first chapter is kind of dense reading, but the rest of it's pretty good. I haven't finished it yet,but I've liked what I've seen.

[Triple Zero]

is that a different one as Art of Memetics pirate edition?

cause while that one is TOTALLY WORTH READING its not really about NLP, afaik. unless I still dont understand what NLP is really about

[Iason Ouabache]

Broken AI pretty much says it all.

NLP is a pretty poor model of the mind, it must be said.  Neurobiologists very rarely have something kind to say about it, and some of the hype seems to come from the nature of the group activities that seminars usually involve (getting  alot of people in one place, focused on one goal).  Some of the techniques seem to work, and it does develop a vocabulary for the use of covert persuasion and manipulation...it is just worth keeping in mind it doesn't necessarily work because of why the NLPers say it works (if indeed the technique can be made to work at all).

Also, for some reason, lots of people into NLP are insufferable douchebags.  Those who teach it, as well as those who study it.

It's bullshit, but it's useful bullshit.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4155

I've read a fair amount about NLP, and my analysis of the Meta Model is pretty simple. I'd describe it as a confrontational manner of speaking intended to dominate a conversation by nitpicking the other's persons sentences apart. For example, if it's a good day and all is well, I might be inclined to make an offhand, general comment like "I feel pretty good today." The Meta Model response to that is "What specifically makes you feel good?" And, I don't really know. I don't really have a single, specific answer. And whatever I do come up with gets attacked the same way: "Exactly why does that make you feel good?" And suddenly I'm on the defensive; I'm being made to feel that I'm in error, the position I've taken is revealed to be unsupported; and I'm now putty in the NLP guy's hands. Basically, it's being a condescending jerk in the way you talk to someone, in order to exert influence. That's the Meta Model. It's not psychotherapy; it's high-pressure sales. The Milton Model takes a different road to the same destination: low-pressure sales.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Broken AI pretty much says it all.

NLP is a pretty poor model of the mind, it must be said.  Neurobiologists very rarely have something kind to say about it, and some of the hype seems to come from the nature of the group activities that seminars usually involve (getting  alot of people in one place, focused on one goal).  Some of the techniques seem to work, and it does develop a vocabulary for the use of covert persuasion and manipulation...it is just worth keeping in mind it doesn't necessarily work because of why the NLPers say it works (if indeed the technique can be made to work at all).

Also, for some reason, lots of people into NLP are insufferable douchebags.  Those who teach it, as well as those who study it.

Actually, NLPtards tend to go out of their way to avoid why questions.

Bandler carefully positioned it against "the medical model" which is essentially etiology.

I'd agree with all of the characterizations ITT besides the how/why distinction, which is quite fundamental to most forms of NLP.

NLP doesn't make many claims as to the accuracy of the model. The slogan is, "TrY iT oUt FoR yOuRsELf!" The emphasis is on whether the model helps or impedes reaching objectives. Like a good political sleazeball, it just sidesteps the entire issue. For example, "The Presuppositions" are carefully described as not necessarily true, but if you act as though they are then it will lube your social interactions. For the most part, I agree with that.

My take on NLP as a whole is that it's a mixed bag of bullshit and useful ideas. I also think it's key to cross reference it with info from experts in communication (especially nonverbal communication) and psychology in order to suss out the bs from the good stuff.

[Jenne]

Something is niggling in the back of my brain when I took that neurobiological linguistics class 10 years ago...but it won't come forth.  Probably because most of that class was about aphasics...but there was SOMETHING about semiotics, neurolinguistic signals and the rest of it...just can't remember.

Of course, most of my MA was spent studying both TESL *and* "embodiment and language"...so a lot of it is sort of enmeshed and tangled since I never read up or use much of it any longer. 

[Bu🤠ns]

I've found users manual for the brain to be a more bare-bones NLP book.  Some of it might be useful -- in the same sense that say memory tricks might be useful.

[Elder Iptuous]

I d/l a 720MB NLP torrent.
now all i have to do is sift through the bs to get to the good stuff....

[Corvidia]

is that a different one as Art of Memetics pirate edition?

cause while that one is TOTALLY WORTH READING its not really about NLP, afaik. unless I still dont understand what NLP is really about

I think we're all thinking of the same one--the one that Cain put in the theory collection of books? No NLP, I don't think.