Author Topic: Book Club: Angel Tech  (Read 50029 times)

Rococo Modem Basilisk

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #225 on: November 06, 2009, 07:12:35 pm »
The Six Shithate Model of Conciousness sounds like a catchy title.


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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #226 on: November 06, 2009, 07:33:51 pm »
The Enki Effect, in effect.
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #227 on: November 10, 2009, 03:02:49 pm »
So, Gear Five.  Reflects Gear one, and is the state of Body Rapture.  Yeah, it's Getting HIGH.  The key here is the immediacy of being in The Moment.  "The quality is discovered through the body's natural, direct response to itself and the immediate environment... bypassing thought, preconception and projected meanings."

I appreciate that he underscores the pitfalls here, though… "You don't have to figure anything out. Fifth Grade begins right where you are. There is no reason for rapture to exist... it is deep and meaningless… This is a very happy place to be. It may feel like home ... or heaven... or as if your body is inside you. The curious phenomena about Rapture is that once we're there, there's no place to go! No goals, no future, no problem! However, because Sensory Intelligence is just one of eight levels, we learn about not making it a goal either."  Feeling good and high isn't the end point, though a hell of a lot of us end up acting that way. 

This is also where we get our first level of Gurus Who Don't Get It.  "A popular emotional resistance among our freshman Fifth Graders is status: making a big deal of the experience. It's fun to get high and sometimes it's easy to make it a status symbol by getting caught up in the "energetic charge" of the somatic high… Pleasure Cults and Ecstatic Religions are for Bliss Ninnies."

We should note that this level is pretty much beyond language, because when you're in The Moment inside your Body, there is no place for a linear, intellectual form of communication. "The language of the senses is kinetic: Movement, Dance and Mime form its symbols of gesture, posture and attitude."  Mime?  Ah, well.

One way you can get into Bliss mode, can possibly be Listening.  "Listen, moment-to-moment, to the sounds of your immediate environment. Listen to how your mind may make sense of the sounds: naming, categorizing and figuring them out. Now, give yourself permission to simply listen to the sounds as different energies."  Before you snort and roll your eyes, know that this is the way John Cage wanted to people to listen to his music.  He called music "intended noise", and did his best to get people to expand that definition, so that all noise was intended.  You can find those fleeting Transcendental moments if you try, be it a symphony or a cacophony.   

In line with Kai's model of C5 = All is One, we have, "The creative state of Sensory Intelligence necessitates a certain kind of eternal dependence: We create when we are alone. The word, alone, comes from combining all and one."  Normally, I dislike that kind of pseudo-lingual-numerology, but it seemed apt, so I threw it in there.

"Social resistance to Fifth Grade is often expressed as value judgments and are not at all uncommon. With so much Rapture, Bliss and Pleasure floating around, it's highly likely that our conditioned moral and ethical codes start acting up."  But then again, "Fifth Graders go through a totally spacy, disoriented and "untogether" period just to learn about internal dependence and letting go of social responsibility. During this phase, they may get a lot of judgmental flack from "envious" Fourth Graders who aren't comfortable with having as much fun. This is why Fifth Grade Homework entails the task of giving oneself permission to become completely selfish, just so we can follow through and graduate without other peoples' judgments, opinions and fears."  Maybe it's not so much that people are being Fourth Graders and are "Jealous", maybe that's just a natural reaction to someone who's being a Selfish Space Cadet.

Incidentally, the guy keeps spelling "judgment" as "judgement", and it's really starting to bug me.

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #228 on: November 10, 2009, 03:22:36 pm »
good stuff LMNO, i haven't read all of the book, but you're notes are still pretty darned good :)

also:

Quote
Incidentally, the guy keeps spelling "judgment" as "judgement", and it's really starting to bug me.

is he britspag?  that's how I've always spelt it.

x

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #229 on: November 10, 2009, 04:33:10 pm »
good stuff LMNO, i haven't read all of the book, but you're notes are still pretty darned good :)

also:

Quote
Incidentally, the guy keeps spelling "judgment" as "judgement", and it's really starting to bug me.

is he britspag?  that's how I've always spelt it.

x

He doesn't have an accent... but that is the Britspag way to spell the word.

Excellent summary LMNO.

Quote
Maybe it's not so much that people are being Fourth Graders and are "Jealous", maybe that's just a natural reaction to someone who's being a Selfish Space Cadet.

If a person is stuck in fourth gear, they still have the social rules tightly in their brain. The person who is a 'selfish space cadet' isn't following the rules, they are being socially irresponsible, they are thinking about themselves instead of the tribe.

Part of the fifth circuit is realizing that not only is it OK for YOU to be a selfish space cadet sometimes, but its also ok for other people to focus on themselves. Not just to make themselves better (introspection) but also its ok to occasionally be completely selfish and "get high" (however you do it) just for the Bliss. If a person 'has a problem with that', AA would say they haven't worked out their own 5th circuit yet... they haven't OK'd it for themselves, so how could it be OK for someone else?

We see that sort of thinking in conservative groups all the time. Some religious groups feel that dancing, makeup, more than a few sets of modest clothing etc are inappropriate because they are selfish, they are focused on the individual. To me, that appears as a very strong tribal imprint, which gets in the way of exploring the fifth circuit.

I also liked this chapter because it made be go back and rewatch Power of Myth and Joseph Campbell's  thoughts on "Follow Your Bliss". For Campbell, bliss seems to have a start at this circuit but progresses far beyond it.

Here's one of the bits:

Quote
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Wherever you are -- if you are following your bliss, you are enjoying that refreshment, that life within you, all the time.

* * *

Now, I came to this idea of bliss because in Sanskrit, which is the great spiritual language of the world, there are three terms that represent the brink, the jumping-off place to the ocean of transcendence: sat-chit-ananda. The word "Sat" means being. "Chit" means consciousness. "Ananda" means bliss or rapture. I thought, "I don't know whether my consciousness is proper consciousness or not; I don't know whether what I know of my being is my proper being or not; but I do know where my rapture is. So let me hang on to rapture, and that will bring me both my consciousness and my being." I think it worked.

Now that's not just the fifth circuit... Following your bliss isn't just sitting around stoned or tripping balls... following your bliss is about finding out what fulfills you personally and taking that path. It is a very selfish concept in some sense... for example, if your bliss is artwork and that is what makes you amazingly happy, following your bliss would mean choosing that life over a life that might net you more money, more stability and health insurance. If there's more than just you in your life, that might be seen as selfish by anyone strongly rooted in the tribal tradition of a protestant work ethic. following your bliss is about finding that which 'gets you high', which raises you to a level of fulfillment and passion. That gets its start in the fifth circuit, looking beyond the tribal rules of the 4th.

At least thats how I processed this chapter. Also, it's important to note the difference between "Following your bliss" and being a "Bliss Ninny". Cambell's idea of following your bliss was active, doing that which fulfills you... sitting around stoned off your ass, munching cheetos and watching reruns of Thundercats is not so much 'fulfilling' as 'escaping'... which the fifth circuit is often used for.

Bad Bliss Imprint: Paris Hilton
Good Bliss Imprint: Joseph Campbell

Bad Bliss Imprint: Britney Spears
Good Bliss Imprint: Cory Doctorow

All four are follow/followed their Bliss, be it hedonism, the study of something that fascinates them, or writing for the purpose of communicating ideas, rather than being focused on the cash.

* E-Prime the above as necessary
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 04:35:08 pm by Doctor Rat Bastard »
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Kai

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #230 on: November 11, 2009, 02:37:03 am »
Yes, the pitfall of 5C intelligence, escaping versus fullfilling. But I'd argue that escaping means I haven't gotten 1-4C in order, I'm neglecting my physical existence (1C), failing to set up good personal boundaries (2C), letting my cognitive processes wane (3C) and/or either neglecting social needs all together or continuing to let them dictate what is "fullfilling" in my life.

This sort of thinking comes to mind (that I've used before): I don't deserve to have what really fullfills me and makes me happy (4C and 2C), and I feel tired (1C) and I don't feel like thinking right now (3C) so I'm just going to lay in bed watching youtube videos all day long; even though it doesn't make me happy it still feels nice and I don't deserve to be happy anyway.

Note, most of that is subconscious thoughts.
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #231 on: November 11, 2009, 03:27:01 pm »
I think I wasn't focusing so much on people who can manage their Bliss and still function, I was talking about the people who treat C5 as the goal, and abandon C1-4; or the C5 "gurus" who tell you you're being all "uptight" and "heavy" and that you just need to "go with the flow, man."

Because believe me, I know C5.  I go there a lot, without getting stoned.  But you can't live there forever without horrific problems happening to you.  I know that from personal experience, as well.

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #232 on: November 11, 2009, 04:39:10 pm »
Yes, the pitfall of 5C intelligence, escaping versus fullfilling. But I'd argue that escaping means I haven't gotten 1-4C in order, I'm neglecting my physical existence (1C), failing to set up good personal boundaries (2C), letting my cognitive processes wane (3C) and/or either neglecting social needs all together or continuing to let them dictate what is "fullfilling" in my life.

This sort of thinking comes to mind (that I've used before): I don't deserve to have what really fullfills me and makes me happy (4C and 2C), and I feel tired (1C) and I don't feel like thinking right now (3C) so I'm just going to lay in bed watching youtube videos all day long; even though it doesn't make me happy it still feels nice and I don't deserve to be happy anyway.

Note, most of that is subconscious thoughts.

Excellent points. Though I think it may depend somewhat on how the person deals with Chapel Perilous as well. If they come out, stripped of all belief, in a completely nihilistic state of mind, they may also fall victim to the bliss trap. And CP can fuck you up even if your first four circuits are in some sense of order ;-)

I think I wasn't focusing so much on people who can manage their Bliss and still function, I was talking about the people who treat C5 as the goal, and abandon C1-4; or the C5 "gurus" who tell you you're being all "uptight" and "heavy" and that you just need to "go with the flow, man."

Because believe me, I know C5.  I go there a lot, without getting stoned.  But you can't live there forever without horrific problems happening to you.  I know that from personal experience, as well.

Oh absolutely, I was just trying to expound on the topic because it was one I really appreciated.  :)
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Kai

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #233 on: November 11, 2009, 05:35:08 pm »
Can you give me some theoretical examples of chapel perilous type experiences? Just trying to figure out where my own experiences fit.
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #234 on: November 11, 2009, 05:42:39 pm »
It's a subjective experience, so describing my own trips through the Chapel probably won't sound that bad.

But one of the most basic is the first time all of your pre-concieved assumptions about the Way Things Work are stripped away in one sudden instant.  For me, this was mostly social (I had moderatly good C1 and 2, and really good C3, but C4 was always somewhat of a mystery).  Like when you head into a situation with an understanding that everyone thinks a certain way, and you base most of your behaviors and personality on that, and then it's kicked out from under you, and you're left hanging in the void.

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #235 on: November 11, 2009, 05:45:21 pm »
the chapel is the descent into madness, the loosing connection with all sense of direction, its the point in a life that no thinking or thought, no idea in your mind can resolve.. how you get there and the circumstances that surround your entry to the chapel are as infinite as human experience, the results of a trip through the chapel are madness or illumination.. (a somewhat poetic description is the best i can do)
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #236 on: November 11, 2009, 05:48:27 pm »
Can you give me some theoretical examples of chapel perilous type experiences? Just trying to figure out where my own experiences fit.

Sure.

I once did a ritual invocation of Therion. The whole nine yards.... and then I was no longer me doing the ritual. I was inside a tawny colored animal... I could see my paws and fur and I was in a field, with a tree... according to the other people in the ritual, I was wandering around on all fours growling and pawing at things.

When I left that experience, I had to decide what it meant, was it 'real'? was it 'real' in some sense? was it "all in my head"? did it matter if it was all in my head, or was that as legitimate an experience as any other? Was it supernatural? Was it psychological? Was it something in the "collective unconscious"? Was it something entirely in my imagination? Was it demons? (having been just out of the JW's religion, that last one took a while to decide on).

That's a kind of chapel perilous experience. Up to that point, I believed that magic was mostly bullshit, but that rituals might be useful from a psychological standpoint. When that hit me, none of what I thought I knew fit anymore. I certainly didn't think before that time, that I could just fool myself that deeply... I certainly didn't think that Therion was really Real... but I couldn't usefully explain the experience.

RAW writes about his CP experience in Cosmic Trigger, where he spent months experiencing what appeared to him as "communication from aliens on the planet Sirius."

As I understand CP, its all about the point where you suddenly realize that your maps and models don't cover all bits of reality and you gotta figure out a new map, or figure out that you can use multiple maps, and none of them may be completely right... or you may just go crazy.
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #237 on: November 11, 2009, 05:53:20 pm »
So, its the point of shock, the point where everything feels like its just gone totally nuts, the situation where I "don't really know whats real and whats not anymore" (how I've said it before), or what to believe, or who is right or wrong, or where meaning might be found in my life, etc etc. A midlife crisis on a more fundamental scale.

Jesus christ, I've been in and out of chapel perilous for the last 10 years.
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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #238 on: November 11, 2009, 05:55:18 pm »
A lot of us have been.  The trick is finding out the easiest way to leave once you find yourself in there.

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Re: Book Club: Angel Tech
« Reply #239 on: November 11, 2009, 05:56:09 pm »
So, its the point of shock, the point where everything feels like its just gone totally nuts, the situation where I "don't really know whats real and whats not anymore" (how I've said it before), or what to believe, or who is right or wrong, or where meaning might be found in my life, etc etc. A midlife crisis on a more fundamental scale.

Jesus christ, I've been in and out of chapel perilous for the last 10 years.

Yep. Thats the game.

And as far as I understand it, some people never leave Chapel Perilous. Others leave and return many times. Still others think they've left and spend eternity just wandering around in the foyer.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson