Intelligent Design students who get 20% of their grades from trolling..

[Fuquad]

If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.

Try it.

No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.

[Captain Utopia]

If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.

Try it.

No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.

I suppose I'm wasting my time asking you to address the actual argument, rather than just poke fun at the retard.

[Kai]

Actually, Kai said:

"No difference between micro and macro evolution."


You responded,

"Might there be a parallel between this and distinguishing between micro-memes and macro-memes?"


Your response is exactly the opposite of what Kai was saying.

No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.

No, I'm objecting to your use of the word "meme' in such a muddled constant way that all significant meaning of the word is lost. You use it in such a vague manner and everywhere that it just becomes like saying fwatwoaewewajiioewoa'e. It ends up meaning nothing at all.

And your last statement shows just how little you actually know what you're talking about. You're confusing words with terms, and terms with words and being all around confusing in general. There is a term that the word "meme" can stand for, a rather significant and useful term within a limited context. However, the way you use the word "meme" muddles it until the word doesn't represent the term anymore. Your usage renders the word meaningless and annoying. As I said, it's as if I would use the word gene everywhere. Or as when I say a word over and over and over it begins to sound like gibberish.

Lets get this straight. I don't particularly like the word evolution, but since it's come to be associated with a term I discuss frequently, I use the word for communication's sake. I also use it in a very specific and well defined manner, and I make sure to define it when I use it, or that it is at least clear by the context what I'm talking about. I don't use it everywhere for various things. For example, I don't say "my learning ability evolved over time" in close proximity to talking about "evolution via natural selection". That way my terms aren't muddled. Do you fucking understand what I'm fucking saying to you? I want you to stop using the word "meme" until you can use it properly, until you can well define your context AND connotation. Because connotation is as important to meaning as the standard definition is, as context is. (anyone who tells you differently is a moron.) Right now you're using the word to mean various things and it's ANNOYING AS HELL. And it's very poor communication.

[Fuquad]

If I am so retarded, it should be easy to point out just one example of it in the response I gave above.

Try it.

No, I'm saying that I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between micro-memes and macro-memes. Thus Kai's objection that "meme" is useless because it can refer to wearing a baseball cap at an angle, or a religion, is invalid. Because otherwise we should throw out the word "evolution" at the same time since it refers to both species and varieties.

I suppose I'm wasting my time asking you to address the actual argument, rather than just poke fun at the retard.

This was in reply to someone telling you that KAI told you that there was no difference between Micro and macro in the case of evolution, and you switched over to the idea of micro and macro in reference to the word meme. Since the term meme is commonly used as analogy to gene you basically took the response about evolution and used it in reference to genes. I'm pretty fucking sure that there are no Microgenes or Macrogenes.

OR in essence everything you fucking said in your post was retarded.

[Captain Utopia]

They're finally getting it? Sounds like a recipe for escalation to me.

Thing is though, how do you wage a meme war, if you don't have a firm grasp on how ideas evolve? Just because you can design a good meme, that doesn't mean that strong memes don't evolve without individual intent. Etc, etc.

Bring it on, I say.

Trying to take Kai's advice on board, I'll rewrite that initial post.

The trolling described in the article, which the students are required to perform, sounds like a simple task of arguing using talking points already discussed in their class. This is a primitive form of trolling, as even if those "talking points" have been designed with great care, that is no substitute for the students themselves being able to dissemble and reassemble them with an intuitive understanding of the argument. Much like the soldiers who practice working with their weapons until they understand each component.

But this is not a stable environment, and it seems inevitable to me that over time student trolls will be taught increasingly sophisticated techniques. For example, nineteen years ago it was still a successful technique to compare an opponents position to Hitler, and walk away unharmed. But the more we communicate, the more we refine our techniques. And if you click that link, you will see evidence of those techniques refining themselves.

Escalation is inevitable.

If, as Dawkins wrote, ideas evolve and mutate over time.. then gaining an intuitive understanding of how to use ideas effectively in this environment, would seem to me to be equivalent to gaining an intuitive understanding of at least one aspect of how evolution operates.

Which is a deliciously ironic position for these Intelligent Design trolls to put themselves in. Even more so if they convince themselves that it doesn't apply.

Does that really convey any more significant information than the original?

[LMNO]

I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.

[Cain]

Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:

http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html

[LMNO]

[fomenter]

why do i get the feeling he will read the book, misunderstand it, borrow its jargon, and come back and tell us we aren't communicating right, while incorrectly using the new words he learned numerous times in every sentence ..

[Captain Utopia]

I think you also have a weak grasp on what the word "trolling" means.

Quite possibly. You're part of a community which has years of tradition and history and meaning. I've been here less than a month. While your terms and maps are well documented I, and likely no-one else, will read through and absorb ~500,000 posts and external references just to make sure that the community mappings and personal mappings are as accurate as possible.

Every time you mystically say something like "I don't think that word means what you think it means", if I want to understand, I have a choice between reading the archives or asking you directly. I am much more inclined to do the latter.

Because I want to understand as much as possible, as quickly as possible.

[LMNO]

I wouldn't want to infect you with my memes - mind control is a dangerous thing.

[Kai]

Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:

http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html

Thanks. I'll be reading this. Sounds like a good companion to Adler and van Doren.

[Captain Utopia]

Stand back, I'm about to be helpful:

http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books/psychology_behavior/847684276.html

Thanks. I'll be reading this. Sounds like a good companion to Adler and van Doren.

Ah neat, I didn't see the download links first time around. Thanks.

[Dimocritus]

The term meme is loosing all memeing, I meme, I can't even meme the meme meme. Meme. Smurfy!

[Kai]

The term meme is loosing all memeing, I meme, I can't even meme the meme meme. Meme. Smurfy!

Wow, you actually said something that made perfect sense in the context.