Moral Relativity VS. An Absolute Moral System

[Dimocritus]

how do you know that they're flawed, other than by juxtaposing them with your personal value system?

Just when I thought we were getting somewhere! Damn it, I guess this has to go in the notes, too...

Therefore, it is a specific subset of RM.

gotcha.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

NOTE: Some people think Heinlein is a racist because one of his books seem quite racist. If you actually read Heinlein, rather than Internet commentary about Heinlein, it appears he was writing a book ABOUT Racism being a major problem.

Utter and complete bullshit, though I congratulate you on your hilarious attempt at a strawman argument.  I've read Farnham's Freehold, and it was an unabashed racist screed.  Have YOU read it, or are you relying on "internet commentary"?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That's all you got? I'd hoped for something better. But, if your done then we actually get back to the discussion at hand, instead of your delusions

That's all I need.  You've resorted to appeal to ridicule and strawman arguments, ergo you lose.  End of story.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Doctor: Thanks. So, did Adams pick up the word from him?

Grok came into existence there and then got heavily memed throughout the geek community. Its a staple of hacker lingo, which was where it got into my lexicon. Unlike poor TGRR's addled old man brain, grok doesn't mean understand. Grok means that you are capable of entering the reality and perceptions of the other person... a comingling of understanding and empathy. In the book it was intimated that you had to do more than just process the information on a conscious level.

Freehold posits a reality where enslaved black men are freed and gain ascendancy over the whites and then proceed to do terrible things to them, including cannibalism. Reactionary fools call racist and think their smart. People that actually read Heinlein recognize that he's using shock and extreme viewpoints to emphasize the issue of bigotry as being a major problem here in the US. But, that requires grokking rather than just reading Internet reviews on the book

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That's all you got? I'd hoped for something better. But, if your done then we actually get back to the discussion at hand, instead of your delusions

That's all I need.  You've resorted to appeal to ridicule and strawman arguments, ergo you lose.  End of story.

Dude, with you ridicule is the only language

[Dimocritus]

Also, I dig the word "Grok."

That's because you're retarded.  And you admire a racist.

Whoah, where does the word come from? I always thought it was from HGTTG. I'm pretty sure Douglas Adams wasn't a racist. (But then again, what the hell do I know).

Not much, apparently.  It comes from Robert Heinlien.  Google "Farnham's Freehold" to gain a better understanding of this fascinating pinhead.

From Wikipedia

Some have argued that the portrayal of the black ruling caste as cannibalistic, polygynous tyrants with a preference for Caucasian women utilizes most of the available racist stereotypes about Africans and African-Americans. Another interpretation posits that the cannibalism and sexual predation of the dark-skinned masters is allegorical, representing the way that black slaves were historically taken advantage of by their masters.

As always, more than one way to look at something. I haven't read it, so I'm not going to make a stand. Either way...

Grok means that you are capable of entering the reality and perceptions of the other person... a comingling of understanding and empathy. In the book it was intimated that you had to do more than just process the information on a conscious level.

I still dig the word "Grok"

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Doctor: Thanks. So, did Adams pick up the word from him?

Grok came into existence there and then got heavily memed throughout the geek community. Its a staple of hacker lingo, which was where it got into my lexicon. Unlike poor TGRR's addled old man brain, grok doesn't mean understand. Grok means that you are capable of entering the reality and perceptions of the other person... a comingling of understanding and empathy. In the book it was intimated that you had to do more than just process the information on a conscious level.

Freehold posits a reality where enslaved black men are freed and gain ascendancy over the whites and then proceed to do terrible things to them, including cannibalism. Reactionary fools call racist and think their smart. People that actually read Heinlein recognize that he's using shock and extreme viewpoints to emphasize the issue of bigotry as being a major problem here in the US. But, that requires grokking rather than just reading Internet reviews on the book

Yes, and the betrayal by the Black character that starts out with the hero was...

Oh, yeah.  An illustration that Black people cannot be trusted.  It was spelled out quite clearly in the text.

And what Rat described in his first paragraph IS "understanding".

Sorry Rat's young, addled mind was apparently damaged by fetal alcohol syndrome.

Also, Rat has apparently turned to outright lies in his desperation.  How fucking pathetic is that?

[Dimocritus]

And what Rat described in his first paragraph IS "understanding".

I can grok that...

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That's all you got? I'd hoped for something better. But, if your done then we actually get back to the discussion at hand, instead of your delusions

That's all I need.  You've resorted to appeal to ridicule and strawman arguments, ergo you lose.  End of story.

Dude, with you ridicule is the only language

Understood.  Between that and your insistance on outright lies, I don't think we need to carry on this conversation - or any other - any further.

See?  You win!  And all it cost you was your integrity.  

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Doctor: Thanks. So, did Adams pick up the word from him?

Grok came into existence there and then got heavily memed throughout the geek community. Its a staple of hacker lingo, which was where it got into my lexicon. Unlike poor TGRR's addled old man brain, grok doesn't mean understand. Grok means that you are capable of entering the reality and perceptions of the other person... a comingling of understanding and empathy. In the book it was intimated that you had to do more than just process the information on a conscious level.

Freehold posits a reality where enslaved black men are freed and gain ascendancy over the whites and then proceed to do terrible things to them, including cannibalism. Reactionary fools call racist and think their smart. People that actually read Heinlein recognize that he's using shock and extreme viewpoints to emphasize the issue of bigotry as being a major problem here in the US. But, that requires grokking rather than just reading Internet reviews on the book

Yes, and the betrayal by the Black character that starts out with the hero was...

Oh, yeah.  An illustration that Black people cannot be trusted.  It was spelled out quite clearly in the text.

And what Rat described in his first paragraph IS "understanding".

Sorry Rat's young, addled mind was apparently damaged by fetal alcohol syndrome.

Also, Rat has apparently turned to outright lies in his desperation.  How fucking pathetic is that?

I've read almost every book that Heinlein has written. I don't particularly like Freehold, it was a hard book to read and displayed some horrific acts which are very uncomfortable. BUT if you read that and consider it a screed against black people... then you just didn't grok it.

And here we see Roger turning to his old standby of accusations when he runs out of lame comebacks, its his shtick though, so its fun

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That's all you got? I'd hoped for something better. But, if your done then we actually get back to the discussion at hand, instead of your delusions

That's all I need.  You've resorted to appeal to ridicule and strawman arguments, ergo you lose.  End of story.

Dude, with you ridicule is the only language

Understood.  Between that and your insistance on outright lies, I don't think we need to carry on this conversation - or any other - any further.

See?  You win!  And all it cost you was your integrity.  

you really must start trying harder you impotent old fart

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And here we see Roger turning to his old standby of accusations when he runs out of lame comebacks, its his shtick though, so its fun

I stated that I have read the book.  You then stated that I got my POV from internet reviews, and you stated it as fact.

You're a liar.  I think that's pretty obvious.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

And here we see Roger turning to his old standby of accusations when he runs out of lame comebacks, its his shtick though, so its fun

I stated that I have read the book.  You then stated that I got my POV from internet reviews, and you stated it as fact.

You're a liar.  I think that's pretty obvious.

I posted that before I saw that you read it.

Ok so you read the book and failed to understand it. I'm not sure that's better...

[fomenter]

RM is often used to mean all morality's are equal  by followers of AM

the  reality that Morality's are Relative but some Morality's are better or worse needs its own name to separate the two uses of the words..

This seems in line with my opinion as well. For morality to be absolute, there would have to be some constant outside of human consciousness and I don't have any evidence that such a thing exists. However, some moral systems are horrifically flawed.

I hate to lead us in circles, but honest question-

how do you know that they're flawed, other than by juxtaposing them with your personal value system?

the "honest question" is just restating the point that morality's are relative...

lmno's suggestion of consensus would be one way, are they rational or do they function another. and my gut instinct personal value system as well, i don't think the observers position cant be taken out of the equation

[LMNO]

You have to deconstruct each moral, figure out it's purpose, and if that purpose is effective and/or productive by itself, and as a part of the entire moral code.