QUESTION: What is your poltical affiliation?

[BabylonHoruv]

What did they do in Spain and Ukraine? When or how was this anarchy that actually worked?

The error most people make in thinking about anarchism is assuming that it simply means a complete lack of order, which is impossible. What Anarchism means is that the power to make decisions is in the hands of the people, there is no higher authority.  it is a system which requires a much more involved and empowered populous to maintain than any other, but that doesn;t mean it isn't worth it.

That right there is what terrifies me.
People. Because they're kind of awful to one another, especially when teacher's gone.

What kind of order do people use without hierarchy?

there's quite a few ways to organize without hierarchy.  And yeah, people are quite often awful to one another, the problem is, if one person is in charge, they automatically get license to be awful.  governing doesn't work precisely because people are shits, you can't trust any of them to run things.

What are those ways?

I don't see how anarchy would stop people from being shits, but I do see how those shits would act if there weren't any police officers around. Some of them would beat the living fuck out of people like me without a second thought, any chance they could get, and they would get to do it as often as they like because without The Man[tm], there would be no repercussions.

What kind of system  would anarchy use to prevent that kind of behavior?

Well, the assumption is that the system didn't just magically vanish.  It was overthrown, but Anarchists working together.  So those fuckers who want to beat people up, for the fun of it, they got killed in the revolution.

If you think police stop people from committing crimes you really aren't paying attention.

[Shai Hulud]

Lasted in Spain and the Ukraine until the Communists conquered them by force.

Will anarchists ever shut up about Spain?

Not until someone else does it more successfully.

In that case I won't be holding my breath.

You know, fascism was pretty popular eighty years ago in Spain, too.  So was phrenology.  Just sayin.

[BabylonHoruv]

Lasted in Spain and the Ukraine until the Communists conquered them by force.

Will anarchists ever shut up about Spain?

Not until someone else does it more successfully.

In that case I won't be holding my breath.

You know, fascism was pretty popular eighty years ago in Spain, too.  So was phrenology.  Just sayin.

Yep, then the Germans did it better, so nowadays all the Fascists refer back to Germany.

[Epimetheus]

I like the idea, Roger, and actually I think you make a good point - any freethinking person is necessarily their own political party, their own philosophical school of thought, and it only has one member.

As for my own ideas, I haven't really decided yet. I tend to agree with whatever the latest argument I read was, and yes I realize how sad that is. I just can't seem to find a political philosophy I can hold onto tightly. However, whatever I believe I tend to be an idealist and I tend to follow ideals more easily than the complex nature of human nature. Maybe that's a problem I have. I dunno.

[Requia ☣]

No it doesn't, you need power to keep the assholes from seizing power.  Anarchy only lasts for the 5 seconds it takes the biggest asshole in the area to convince a couple dozen people to be his new army.

Also, I have decided on a new political affiliation.  I am now an assholist.  I recognize that no matter what happens, an asshole will be in charge, and am just concerned with getting an asshole thats on my side.

Lasted in Spain and the Ukraine until the Communists conquered them by force.

You could see that as the Communists being the biggest assholes if you really wanna, but it wasn't a quick thing.

[Salty]

What did they do in Spain and Ukraine? When or how was this anarchy that actually worked?

The error most people make in thinking about anarchism is assuming that it simply means a complete lack of order, which is impossible. What Anarchism means is that the power to make decisions is in the hands of the people, there is no higher authority.  it is a system which requires a much more involved and empowered populous to maintain than any other, but that doesn;t mean it isn't worth it.

That right there is what terrifies me.
People. Because they're kind of awful to one another, especially when teacher's gone.

What kind of order do people use without hierarchy?

there's quite a few ways to organize without hierarchy.  And yeah, people are quite often awful to one another, the problem is, if one person is in charge, they automatically get license to be awful.  governing doesn't work precisely because people are shits, you can't trust any of them to run things.

What are those ways?

I don't see how anarchy would stop people from being shits, but I do see how those shits would act if there weren't any police officers around. Some of them would beat the living fuck out of people like me without a second thought, any chance they could get, and they would get to do it as often as they like because without The Man[tm], there would be no repercussions.

What kind of system  would anarchy use to prevent that kind of behavior?

Well, the assumption is that the system didn't just magically vanish.  It was overthrown, but Anarchists working together.  So those fuckers who want to beat people up, for the fun of it, they got killed in the revolution.

If you think police stop people from committing crimes you really aren't paying attention.

O RLY?

And what the fuck do you know about what I give my attention to?

Let's suppose I just walk around with a blank stare on my face all day, don't notice police brutality, don't notice reports of children getting blown into little pieces in their sleep by drones, don't notice anything at all. Yep, happy as a clam. Look at me, not being protected from people who would cut my throat and steal my watch, not because they need it but because it looks pretty.

OK.

I'm not a violent person, in fact until recently I've held the position of devout pacifism. Even verbal pacifism. This position has since come into doubt. For about a year I had these intrusive, unhealthy, violent, thoughts about someone. This person...stole something from me, something no human being should ever steal from another, and I could not get these thoughts out of my head unless my head was drunk.

I didn't like those thoughts, they scared the fuck out of me; because, you see, the only thing that kept me from indulging in these thoughts was that I didn't want to go to jail. I suppose that makes me a bad person, not finding any moral or ethical problems with that kind of thing.

Maybe you've never entertained thoughts like that. Regardless, I find myself wondering about quiet people next to me, wondering what it would take for them to just snap. And then I wonder about the loud, mean mother-fuckers I see every day. The one's with multiple DUI's and have to attend anger management classes and, for some reason, react to a man with a very soft, almost feminine voice and a swish in his walk the same way a bull reacts when you tie a piece of string real tight around his balls. So I think, what would happen if there were no enforced consequence to their actions?  But then, I'm not really paying attention.

So there's going to be a revolution, eh? Sweet. I'll bring the beer, you bring the Marxists.
What's the plan, exactly? What are the finer points bringing down The Man[tm]? No need to KYFMS, there's nothing to be afraid of since no one is going to stop you from doing it because police don't stop people from committing crimes. Evar. So lay it out.

Revolutions are fun, and if I survive the massive social and economical upheavals, (or, you know, the revolutionaries) I have to wonder...
The Americans got the Independence.
The French got the Reign of Terror.
What do I get out of your revolution, other than an ass-raping from The Lord Humongous?

Also, can you please give me an anarchist, eh, means of dealing with criminal behavior? Would it be defined differently? What about Law? 'splain.

[Salty]

Ah fuck.

[Salty]

I'm a member of the Reboot Party.

We have a simple platform:
Every piece of dry, life-form-friendly piece of land gets napalmed.

I know what you're thinking: Where do you keep all the napalm? How do you cover last the bit without 'palming yourself into a corner? Just like mopping.
That's easy. Set up base on Antarctica.

This way, the fish can have another whack at walking and talking to see if they can get it right.
Or, if not, the future race of sentient, intelligent penguin creatures that will have evolved/interbred with the surviving humans can have a go.

We need your donations now!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm a member of the Reboot Party.

We have a simple platform:
Every piece of dry, life-form-friendly piece of land gets napalmed.

I know what you're thinking: Where do you keep all the napalm? How do you cover last the bit without 'palming yourself into a corner? Just like mopping.
That's easy. Set up base on Antarctica.

This way, the fish can have another whack at walking and talking to see if they can get it right.
Or, if not, the future race of sentient, intelligent penguin creatures that will have evolved/interbred with the surviving humans can have a go.

We need your donations now!

You have the support of the "ALLAYOUSE MONKEYS OFF MY PLANET" party.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm a member of the Reboot Party.

We have a simple platform:
Every piece of dry, life-form-friendly piece of land gets napalmed.

I know what you're thinking: Where do you keep all the napalm? How do you cover last the bit without 'palming yourself into a corner? Just like mopping.
That's easy. Set up base on Antarctica.

This way, the fish can have another whack at walking and talking to see if they can get it right.
Or, if not, the future race of sentient, intelligent penguin creatures that will have evolved/interbred with the surviving humans can have a go.

We need your donations now!

Vonnegut already wrote that book. It's called Galapagos.

that said, I'm voting for your party's candidates in my next local elections.

[LMNO]

I'm a member of the Reboot Party.

We have a simple platform:
Every piece of dry, life-form-friendly piece of land gets napalmed.

I know what you're thinking: Where do you keep all the napalm? How do you cover last the bit without 'palming yourself into a corner? Just like mopping.
That's easy. Set up base on Antarctica.

This way, the fish can have another whack at walking and talking to see if they can get it right.
Or, if not, the future race of sentient, intelligent penguin creatures that will have evolved/interbred with the surviving humans can have a go.

We need your donations now!

Vonnegut already wrote that book. It's called Galapagos.

that said, I'm voting for your party's candidates in my next local elections.

Incidentally, Galapagos had the single best Genesis-type creation story ever.

[rygD]

I'm a member of the Reboot Party.

We have a simple platform:
Every piece of dry, life-form-friendly piece of land gets napalmed.

I know what you're thinking: Where do you keep all the napalm? How do you cover last the bit without 'palming yourself into a corner? Just like mopping.
That's easy. Set up base on Antarctica.

This way, the fish can have another whack at walking and talking to see if they can get it right.
Or, if not, the future race of sentient, intelligent penguin creatures that will have evolved/interbred with the surviving humans can have a go.

We need your donations now!

You seem to be gaining supporters left and right.

I'm in...

[Salty]

Roger:
We're grateful for any assistance you can offer. Perhaps you could provide some deeply frightened monkeys as labor. Gotta get them canisters moving.

RCH:
I was being completely original and new! 
I did not know that, but it is not surprising. Thanks for giving me a new book to read.

rygD:
People like simplicity. Glad to have you aboard.

[BabylonHoruv]

No it doesn't, you need power to keep the assholes from seizing power.  Anarchy only lasts for the 5 seconds it takes the biggest asshole in the area to convince a couple dozen people to be his new army.

Also, I have decided on a new political affiliation.  I am now an assholist.  I recognize that no matter what happens, an asshole will be in charge, and am just concerned with getting an asshole thats on my side.

Lasted in Spain and the Ukraine until the Communists conquered them by force.

You could see that as the Communists being the biggest assholes if you really wanna, but it wasn't a quick thing.

So because the Nazi's conquered France by force does that make a Republic a nonviable political system?

[BabylonHoruv]

What did they do in Spain and Ukraine? When or how was this anarchy that actually worked?

The error most people make in thinking about anarchism is assuming that it simply means a complete lack of order, which is impossible. What Anarchism means is that the power to make decisions is in the hands of the people, there is no higher authority.  it is a system which requires a much more involved and empowered populous to maintain than any other, but that doesn;t mean it isn't worth it.

That right there is what terrifies me.
People. Because they're kind of awful to one another, especially when teacher's gone.

What kind of order do people use without hierarchy?

there's quite a few ways to organize without hierarchy.  And yeah, people are quite often awful to one another, the problem is, if one person is in charge, they automatically get license to be awful.  governing doesn't work precisely because people are shits, you can't trust any of them to run things.

What are those ways?

I don't see how anarchy would stop people from being shits, but I do see how those shits would act if there weren't any police officers around. Some of them would beat the living fuck out of people like me without a second thought, any chance they could get, and they would get to do it as often as they like because without The Man[tm], there would be no repercussions.

What kind of system  would anarchy use to prevent that kind of behavior?

Well, the assumption is that the system didn't just magically vanish.  It was overthrown, but Anarchists working together.  So those fuckers who want to beat people up, for the fun of it, they got killed in the revolution.

If you think police stop people from committing crimes you really aren't paying attention.

O RLY?

And what the fuck do you know about what I give my attention to?

Let's suppose I just walk around with a blank stare on my face all day, don't notice police brutality, don't notice reports of children getting blown into little pieces in their sleep by drones, don't notice anything at all. Yep, happy as a clam. Look at me, not being protected from people who would cut my throat and steal my watch, not because they need it but because it looks pretty.

OK.

I'm not a violent person, in fact until recently I've held the position of devout pacifism. Even verbal pacifism. This position has since come into doubt. For about a year I had these intrusive, unhealthy, violent, thoughts about someone. This person...stole something from me, something no human being should ever steal from another, and I could not get these thoughts out of my head unless my head was drunk.

I didn't like those thoughts, they scared the fuck out of me; because, you see, the only thing that kept me from indulging in these thoughts was that I didn't want to go to jail. I suppose that makes me a bad person, not finding any moral or ethical problems with that kind of thing.

Maybe you've never entertained thoughts like that. Regardless, I find myself wondering about quiet people next to me, wondering what it would take for them to just snap. And then I wonder about the loud, mean mother-fuckers I see every day. The one's with multiple DUI's and have to attend anger management classes and, for some reason, react to a man with a very soft, almost feminine voice and a swish in his walk the same way a bull reacts when you tie a piece of string real tight around his balls. So I think, what would happen if there were no enforced consequence to their actions?  But then, I'm not really paying attention.

So there's going to be a revolution, eh? Sweet. I'll bring the beer, you bring the Marxists.
What's the plan, exactly? What are the finer points bringing down The Man[tm]? No need to KYFMS, there's nothing to be afraid of since no one is going to stop you from doing it because police don't stop people from committing crimes. Evar. So lay it out.

Revolutions are fun, and if I survive the massive social and economical upheavals, (or, you know, the revolutionaries) I have to wonder...
The Americans got the Independence.
The French got the Reign of Terror.
What do I get out of your revolution, other than an ass-raping from The Lord Humongous?

Also, can you please give me an anarchist, eh, means of dealing with criminal behavior? Would it be defined differently? What about Law? 'splain.

Criminal behavior would certainly be defined differently.  if what you are doing isn't hurting anyone but you than nobody is going to give a fuck.  if it does, then the people in the community you live in are most likely going to do something about it. 

I don't see any reason that doing something about criminals is something that should be relegated to a specialized class who has, so far, done an incredibly poor job of it.

Do I have a plan for the revolution?  Nope, I don't.  I haven't even managed to get together a little commune of free thinkers to show what life could possibly be like if the revolution happened.  But that doesn't mean I'm not going to dream of it, and giong to put it forth as the best possible system.