the math poll

[Caliginos Gnosticos]

[Triple Zero]

Math is a series of game rules.  Once those rules are "invented" and established, different relationships can be "discovered".

yay. thanks for both clearing up the difference between "invent" and "discover" and applying it to the question ITT at the same time. and doing it so succinctly.

The game rules do not have to adhere to anything we find inside this universe.

I also agree with this, but while it is easy to conflate, I don't think it has much influence on the answer to the question whether math was invented or discovered. Because, as you write above, even in an invented bunch of game rules you can discover relationships. Like the "glider" in Conway's game of life. Apart from a vague and very simplified analogy to biology, it doesn't adhere to our universe, but once you invent the game rules, you get to discover patterns like "gliders".

Btw in other news, recently I solved the chicken/egg problem. The egg came first cause chickens evolved from dinos and dinos already laid eggs. It was a moment of clarity and ever since I've not been able to figure out what the big deal was about it in the first place. There's a corrolary (sp?) when you limit yourself to "chicken eggs" and chickens, but that one's not too hard to figure out either once you got this bit (although in that case it was the chicken).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So I have a related question, which is a point that Roger and I somewhat disagree on.

Is the study of mathematics a science?

[Triple Zero]

So I have a related question, which is a point that Roger and I somewhat disagree on.

Is the study of mathematics a science?

In the sense of whether it should be rewarded with the same kind of prestige as other studies that are considered a science: yes.

In the sense of the nitpicky definition semantics question: I don't really care anymore

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So I have a related question, which is a point that Roger and I somewhat disagree on.

Is the study of mathematics a science?

Nope.  It's linguistics.

[Requia ☣]

I'm gonna go with no.  Scientific process (running experiments and general observation) is a very different thing than doing logical proofs.

[Golden Applesauce]

So I have a related question, which is a point that Roger and I somewhat disagree on.

Is the study of mathematics a science?

Nope.  It's linguistics.

I'd agree, except that linguistics also includes things like polling people to see what word they use for soft drinks/soda/coke.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Sodavspopvscoke.png

I'd give you that mathematics can be reduced to computational linguistics, however.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So I have a related question, which is a point that Roger and I somewhat disagree on.

Is the study of mathematics a science?

Nope.  It's linguistics.

I'd agree, except that linguistics also includes things like polling people to see what word they use for soft drinks/soda/coke.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Sodavspopvscoke.png

I'd give you that mathematics can be reduced to computational linguistics, however.

That's not real linguistics.  That's pandering to slang, and the people doing it should be horsewhipped.

[Halfbaked1]

That depends on what IT is I should think.

I think we just said what it is, you jabbering fucking lackwit.  I think it's, you know, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING POST TITLE.

You.

FUCKING.

Moron.

Math doesn't have mass ya dillweed!  Objects have mass like yer overwhelming, if not well earned, EGO!

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

That depends on what IT is I should think.

I think we just said what it is, you jabbering fucking lackwit.  I think it's, you know, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING POST TITLE.

You.

FUCKING.

Moron.

Math doesn't have mass ya dillweed!  Objects have mass like yer overwhelming, if not well earned, EGO!

[LMNO]

While talking with my bass player about this, he had an interesting comment.  He said that the concept of Zero was not invented, but rather it appeared as an inevitability after the game rule of "one" was invented.

Because, even though positive integers were used for centuries without it, the appearance of Zero was guaranteed to happen eventually.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That depends on what IT is I should think.

I think we just said what it is, you jabbering fucking lackwit.  I think it's, you know, RIGHT IN THE FUCKING POST TITLE.

You.

FUCKING.

Moron.

Math doesn't have mass ya dillweed!  Objects have mass like yer overwhelming, if not well earned, EGO!

Sir, my ego is made from neutronium.  Yours would be too, if you remembered a thing or two.

[Cain]

While talking with my bass player about this, he had an interesting comment.  He said that the concept of Zero was not invented, but rather it appeared as an inevitability after the game rule of "one" was invented.

Because, even though positive integers were used for centuries without it, the appearance of Zero was guaranteed to happen eventually.

You mean to say that the probability of it being discovered, given sufficient time....approaches one?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

While talking with my bass player about this, he had an interesting comment.  He said that the concept of Zero was not invented, but rather it appeared as an inevitability after the game rule of "one" was invented.

Because, even though positive integers were used for centuries without it, the appearance of Zero was guaranteed to happen eventually.

You mean to say that the probability of it being discovered, given sufficient time....approaches one?

[LMNO]

That's it.  Someone turn off the Internet.