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snitching by checking employer's customer PI db against felon db: wrong?

Started by Triple Zero, October 14, 2009, 10:55:13 AM

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Triple Zero

(this may be the wrong forum, but so would the others)

Anyway, wow.

Is [snitching on people by checking my employer's customer PI database against a felon database] unethical or somehow wrong?

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9pb1v/is_this_unethical_or_somehow_wrong

About six years ago, and periodically ever since, I've obtained a full CD disc of database information using my State's open government records laws. This database listing is of all current open felony arrest warrants in the various counties in my state. The information is freely available to anyone who asks as long as they are willing to pay the nominal fee.

Anyway, it so happens that my employer is in the business of collecting basic personal information in order to service various warranty accounts. Starting about six years ago, I began checking just the name and birth dates of all our clients against the felony warrants data.

Whenever I spot an exact match in both name and birth date, I've been calling in anonymous tips to the local CrimeStoppers hotline and collecting rewards anonymously whenever local law enforcement arrests the fugitive.

I spotted a "Support Law Enforcement" bumper sticker the other day, and I casually mentioned to a friend in the car with me that I have been doing this for several years now. I make a pretty good income from it in fact, about $1200 a month on a good month, and never less than about $500 a month.

My friend insists that what I'm doing is very, very wrong. I admit that I'd probably get fired if my employer found out, but that's just an issue between me and my employer. I'm not collecting any information other than name and birth date and bouncing it against my database. And only if there is an EXACT match, then I pass the current address for the wanted person on to CrimeStoppers.

My friend seems to think that this is wrong on many levels beyond me using information from my workplace. I just don't see it. Why? These are all FELONY warrants, and most of them are several years old. I've helped law enforcement capture several dozen fugitives that had warrants over 20 years old! Until my friend got so upset, I was pretty darn proud of myself. Now, I'm wondering if I'm just being a douchebag. Reddit, what do you think?

EDIT

As I type this, there are 560 comments. Wow! I wanted to address some concerns that I agree are very relevant. I haven't read every comment, but I think the main concerns are: 1. That I'm making money on this, 2. that potentially there are drug-war victims being arrested, and 3. that I may be violating some kind of privacy agreement. Oh, and 4. there may be some question as to legality.

Yes, I'm making money on this. I purposely set out to make money on this. I mainly do it for the money. I essentially admitted this in my original post I thought, but perhaps I didn't make it clear enough. I'm under no false pretenses that I'm doing it for anything other than the money, however yes, I do get satisfaction from putting scumbags away as well.

Yes, a relatively small batch of fugitives had charges relating to drug trafficking in particular, mainly cocaine. The State database does show the charges in every instance and I know most of the codes by heart now. Yes, I do agree that the drug war is an unnecessary war on our citizens and I don't agree with the harsh treatment doled out at times. However, I trust the justice system to sort all that out, and I do my part to lobby my representatives for changes to our system as regards drug related crimes. The only data the State gives me is for fugitive warrants. I don't know why and I don't care since it's thousands of names long and dozens more are added every month. I wouldn't waste time on anything other than a felony warrant anyway since those pay the best rewards.

I've been in my current job since graduation from college 10 years ago. It's the only job I've ever held other than part time jobs in high school. I've looked through my papers and I can say with just about 95% certainty that I have never signed any type of contract or agreement of any kind regarding privacy of the information that I come into contact with every work day. It may have been an oversight. However, I think because people are mailing us this information voluntarily, (it's only name, address, DOB and a survey), I don't think it falls under privacy expectations. Yes, they're registering for a warranty, but they're also entering a drawing by filling out the marketing survey. Privacy violation simply never entered my mind as a concern. Perhaps it should have. I did mention in my original post that I will most likely be fired if my boss ever finds out. I'm ok with that.

As to legality. Again, this concern never even entered my mind. If the law says I can't turn in a fugitive to law enforcement, then why the hell are they rewarding me in cash for doing just that? I'm not trying to rationalize anything here. I'm very clear on what I'm doing and why. I just don't believe that it's unlawful in any way. However, I'm know good advice when I see it and I'm going to see a lawyer immediately to get a professional opinion.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Triple Zero

Surprised by the quality of the comments on reddit, btw. Apparently there are still a significant amount of people that actually value freedom.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Triple Zero

best comment ever:

On the plus side, if we wrap George Orwell in coils of wire, and strap magnets to his coffin, we can harness the rotational energy of his disgust and use it to power the globe.

And it'd be doubleplusgreen.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Faust

So this guy is basically a part time illegal private dick/wistleblower.

Sleezy way to make a living. His results don't justify his means though so this is completely inexcusable.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Jenne

So...he's making money off of those who've broken the law...by breaking the law?

Someone needs to turn his ass in to his employer.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Douchebag
However, I trust the justice system to sort all that out,

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

If he is dealing with anyone that is a citizen of MA or CA, he's breaking multiple laws . Actually, I think there are about 12 States with laws about PII (Personally Identifiable Information) and how it must be handled. I think his employer could probably be slapped with a civil lawsuit from the victims as well in those states.

So when he goes to jail... I wonder if everyone inside will know why he's there?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Cramulus


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Not only is he breaking  the law, but he's endangering his employer's business. It is profoundly illegal for a business to use customer information for anything that is not business-related.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

I'm sure I can't be the only one who's thinking of the delicious comedy in snitching on the guy who is breaking the law by snitching.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO on October 14, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
I'm sure I can't be the only one who's thinking of the delicious comedy in snitching on the guy who is breaking the law by snitching.

You certainly aren't.  :lulz:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Dysfunctional Cunt

Quote from: Nigel on October 14, 2009, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 14, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
I'm sure I can't be the only one who's thinking of the delicious comedy in snitching on the guy who is breaking the law by snitching.

You certainly aren't.  :lulz:

:lulz:

Not alone there nope!

I think this is just plain grimey. 

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO on October 14, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
I'm sure I can't be the only one who's thinking of the delicious comedy in snitching on the guy who is breaking the law by snitching.

Fuck that little bastard.  Fuck him in his ear.

What a fucking pig.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Triple Zero

Quote from: Nigel on October 14, 2009, 07:19:02 PM
Not only is he breaking  the law, but he's endangering his employer's business. It is profoundly illegal for a business to use customer information for anything that is not business-related.

The thing is, with me, I don't even care about all the reasons why this could be illegal or not (privacy legislation in Europe works slightly different anyhow, but this would most definitely be illegal), I just think it's a really shitty dickish sneaky crap thing to do (and therefore glad it is illegal, of course).

Because the worst part (IMO) is, this guy genuinely thought he was doing society a service (even though he did feel the need to keep it secret so his conscience wasnt entirely clean, funny how the smell of money facilitates the ease of doublethink), and was generally surprised when his friend was all like "WTF man, that's not right".

Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on October 14, 2009, 03:39:06 PMIf he is dealing with anyone that is a citizen of MA or CA, he's breaking multiple laws . Actually, I think there are about 12 States with laws about PII (Personally Identifiable Information) and how it must be handled. I think his employer could probably be slapped with a civil lawsuit from the victims as well in those states.

So when he goes to jail... I wonder if everyone inside will know why he's there?

I understand it must be very gratifying to come up with these kinds of revenge and justice scenarios, but I don't think the guy will get caught, he is gonna be more careful now, and will ask a lawyer. However, he doesn't even believe he is doing anything wrong! He seems to in fact almost believe it is his civil duty to perform this kind of datamining, afterall, he's got the means, and he's helping catch felons, right?

It really scares me that there are people that really think this way.

It would even be different if the guy knew and understood he is being a dirty stasi snitch, but did it anyway because of money and greed. It would of course be just as bad, the result would be mostly the same, but there's something really scary about someone that blindly fucks over people while believing he is doing it for the good of society. It kind of reminds me of that stupidity quadrant, in one square the "crook" that fucks over people for his personal gain, and in the last square the "stupid person" that fucks over people while also fucking over himself.

There's one question I wanna ask you guys btw, see I told this story to a bunch of friends yesterday, and one of the guys didn't understand. He said well if these are wanted felons, aren't you playing judge by deciding to not help catch them? And even if there are innocent people on this list, they are on a wanted list, so if the police would find them they'd arrest them as well, and in both cases it's up to the police to handle it properly and determine whether someone is innocent or not. And I wasn't quite sure how to answer this. I mean yeah, the police makes mistakes, I don't agree with all the laws, some things shouldnt be felons, etc.

But even if that wasnt the case, even if we had perfect honest cops everywhere and the laws would be clear, fair and just right for everyone, I still feel deep inside that this kind of snitching would be wrong. However, when I try to figure out for myself why I think this is so, all I can come up with is that it would make no difference whether he had used datamining of personal information, or done it differently, because at the root of the problem lies the fact that a (financial) reward is being offered for snitching and turning people in.

But if that is so, then why is snitching on people for a reward legal and actively promoted, and why do we even bother with the privacy laws? How does that work? Snitching is okay, as long as you "just happen to know that person" (but just not enough to actually care about them), but do not actively go out of your way to find them? I'm confused.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.